回複雪花漂飄的評論:
我可以說，你可能很年輕，自己還沒結婚也沒孩子，有些事情你無法感受。武梅是個例，she isn't an ordinary people, sorry to say that.
有時間的話，讀些心理學方麵的書，就會明白了為什麽你的同事會為了離婚而自殺。
雪花漂飄 發表評論於
Of course, 武梅 may have some other reasons such as having a new man friend etc. That is also possible. Who knows? I wish she does not have that kind of problem.
I just explained from my understanding. Sorry for waste of your time.
雪花漂飄 發表評論於
回複goingplace的評論
First you may say what ever you like. I am trying to explain more.
Please put this in your mind:
Individual is different, and people may change now and then.
You said "但愛心不會因為孩子離家的失落感而突然消失吧!". I believe it can be. Because people may change because of some reason, it is completely possible to lost all living motivatio for a small reason.
Just 2 weeks ago, 1 guy in my office just suicided because his wife wanted to divorce. And I guess you will say, divorcing is not worth of suiciding. So people is really different, something not matter to me might be very critical to somebody else.
雪花漂飄 發表評論於
回複goingplace的評論:
Yes, YOU cannot understand, no problem, nobody requires you understanding it. However, I have seen this kind of situation. Some very nice people changed becuase of certain reason, what we are doing now is to find the reason that makes 武梅 changed. Maybe my guess is wrong, you rae right. It does not matter. I just say what I want to say.
回複goingplace的評論:
People may change after period, 武梅 was and is still not so career-oriented, but realized now that she does not have any social position, only depending on the family. And here I am also guessing, not know exactly. I do not like just putting strangely-behaving people to be bad people, people like us are not perfect, some better, some worse, we can learn how to improve ourself and help others improve.
I think 綠一 understands my point very well. And Your point is different, no wondering, as you are not me.
And I truely hope that 武梅 will get rid of her deep lost, and start new life.
雪花漂飄 發表評論於
回複綠一的評論:
I am not professional psychologist, but an IT engineer. I am just interested on the people's relationship, and try to understand why. Hopefully this will help your friends's family.
In the end, I would say that only deep love and understanding,solve the problem, nothing else.
However, if problem still exists, I may not help any more as I am not professional psychologist, professional one is different from my knowledge.
I understood an educated woman's lost because it is so common and easy situation.
And on ther hand, it would be good that some body 武梅 trusts can tell her that she should not be so rude to the family members though she is in deep lost. Actually it is really not the family members' fault, nobody forced her to be home in last 20 years, of course as I said, must somebody she can trust, not somebody she hates now.
Of course after some period (i do not how long) if she still is very rude and becomes worse, does not want to change her alttitude. Then I cannot help. Anyway, some people got crazy, can not get rid of him/herself fault, nobody can help.
雪花漂飄 發表評論於
As I said, 關愛 is enough. But she may need self-achievement, social position, not only good wife and mother.
雪花漂飄 發表評論於
回複綠一的評論:
You are right. And it may be more useful and better if 武梅's family, husband and 公婆 help her to earn the social position though her 20 years is almost waste from the career point of view, not only just her as a role of a mother. I believe that her family's member admired she has been being very good mother, but she wants now probably social position, and her dream of whatever.
回複雪花漂飄的評論:YES，YOU ARE RIGHT。武梅需要幫助。這是我在想不通的情況下寫的文章。現在看了很多有益的跟貼，想通了幾個重要的方麵。非常感謝朋友們!當我看到你的跟貼裏，那句她和她的老公都需要去。。。心理輔導這樣的話，我就明白你在從專業的基點上說事情。謝謝你的人性支持!
我把所有跟貼都反複看過，已經做了總結。會通過適當的方法幫助她和他。
母親節即將到了。朋友已經特別跟她的老公談過。在母親節前開始做準備，包括2個孩子親手做的媽媽我愛你卡片，老公負責買花，然後請武梅去吃飯。關愛先從小事做起。慢慢會有效果的。
再次感謝!
雪花漂飄 發表評論於
And I suppose that 武梅 even herself not realized her deep lost. She just feels unhappy and behave strangely from before, then all her surroundings are suprising, wondering why she has been changing. Then you wrote this story to us.
And of course, she may enter into deadlock and does not want to adpate the changes even we understand her lost. Then we need giving her time until she build new life target, and final result is just God knows.
So that is why there are so many life shows in our world. People behave differently while facing the same problem. The surrounding beloved ones can help, but see how long beloved ones can insist, and herself can recover.
You are right, this is your own idea. And 武梅 believed so before, so she was happy. And maybe something tricked her and made her believe changed, and she becomes so weired.
雪花漂飄 發表評論於
回複綠一的評論:
Thank you for your open mind. You are very nice and sensible, and you understood my point.My major point is: 武梅 needs help, not blaming though she is behaving strangely recently.
回複nanatao的評論:
Mrs.Santa站在自認為公正的角度來批評綠一，有沒有想到其實不偏激的是你自己呢？你所說的一切都建立在你自己的假設上。僅僅是一個讀過MBA的女人，你就認為如果不在家帶孩子，就能成為賺錢的頂級高手，這也未免太搞笑了。
上班的壓力，尤其是做到高層，絕對要比家庭主婦所承擔的要大得多。現在很不理解的就是武梅認為自己所謂的犧牲。照顧自己生的孩子為什麽要說成是犧牲呢？每天和孩子在一起，參與他們的成長，這其中的幸福難道不比賺錢得來的要大得多嗎？憑著自己的心血將孩子培養成一個有用的人，這樣的成就難道不比任何一個工作所得來的要大很多嗎？武梅的公婆每個月也給她5月數字的進帳啊.b如果武梅真的出去工作了又不知還有什麽怨言呢？這種人就是生在福中不知福的那種。
========================================================
You should talk to fathers about your theory, I wish you can convince more and more men become stay-home daddies.When that trend begins, Green-One may not criticize Wu-Mei to demand half family assets for the divorce. Because she always fight for man's privileges.
================================================================
the Keyword is道德規範,
when you批評一個女人做事不合適， whose moral stand do you use?
I think you two use男尊女卑，三從四德 as moral stand to criticize Wu-Mei.
According today's commercial era moral stand to judge Wu-Mei,
I think Wu-Mei is not bad person at all, although I don't agree with her
demand for her in-law's assets.
"針對你對我的回帖，再說幾句，以後我不會再回你的貼。
第一，你一定要說武梅留在家裏做全職媽媽是被脅迫或誘騙，從綠一的文章和回帖
來看，這顯然是顛倒黑白，這才是“豬八戒倒打一耙”
========================================================
From Green-One description, Did her husband offer to stay home with kids
to free her to work outside without any worries? NO, NO, NO!!!!
she had no-choice but to stay home for the sake of their kids' HAPPINESS.
Baby-sitter from outside is not choice, outsider Babysitting is desperation.
"第二，對於高學曆高智商的人來說，帶孩子比賺錢更苦，有這個可能。但是請注意
武梅從來沒吃過這個苦。她一直有保姆照料家中瑣事，她還有公婆每月給很多生活
津貼。我身邊事業家庭兼顧的女性朋友，沒有丈夫在家不工作的，你說的這種情況
少之又少。而且她們的公婆也沒有武梅的公婆那麽大方有錢。武梅的條件跟她們比
不知好多少，絕對沒有理由說她無法出去工作。她隻要想，肯定有辦法，而且解決
辦法肯定不難。"
==========================================================
Here comes again, Why don't you dare to compare Wu-Mei with the man her
husband?
She was a lucky woman ,but she is not as lucky as her husband, because she
was restrained by the duty of their kids' happiness.Meanwhile Her husband
was free with this duty.
"第三，她可成為頂級賺錢高手的可能，這隻是一種可能。這個世界上什麽都有可能，
但不能以此作為談判的基礎，否則簡直就是敲詐勒索。這麽說吧，且不說她的智力
和個性，也不說作為中國人的語言和文化障礙，光從幾率來說，她成不了賺錢高手
的可能性比成為賺錢高手的可能性大得多。那麽多MBA畢業生，有幾個成為你說的頂
級高手，這幾個幸運兒中又有幾個是中國人？你自己算算概率吧。"
=========================================================
yes, Everything is possible. but small probability event is called miracle.
Woman without duty of kid's happiness does as good as man, which is not
miracle. for example Oprah, Martha Steward,
Meg Whiteman. Behind every successful career woman with kids, there is good househusband.thtat's why Amercian family court reward half of family income to the stay-home spouse.
===============================================================
Why do you insist to compare Wu-Mei with other women to feel lucky? Are
you dare to let Wu-Mei compare her husband the man?
Compare her husband the man, Wu-Mei is unfortunate person .and her misfortune
was 50% caused by her husband the man. Of course she should get compensation
from her husband.
By the way, Don't you think there're too much her in-laws in her life?
No wonder she want to get divorced, because this is the only way to avoid
her in-laws.
雪花漂飄 發表評論於
I understand you guys blamed her. It is really truely bad behaviour. Please 綠一 try say some similiar words of my comments to her and see what is her reaction if you want try.
雪花漂飄 發表評論於
全家人的關愛!=self-achievement,self-confidence, indepence and social position as most of us have.
I admire that her behaviour is not normal, overreacted. She needs professional help, not just blaming.
雪花漂飄 發表評論於
回複toobusy的評論:
Yes, I said that her words to 公婆 are not proper, overreacted. But her feeling of lost and regretting of being only home especially own decision make her reaction strangely. So this needs psycologist's help, like Dr. Phil, not just critisize her by us. This does not solve her problem.
And also she was very nice woman as she felt well. And now she felt lost as she does not have life target.
I believe that 武梅 is still nice woman, and she will come back to normal life after some period if her husband understands her lost and helps her to rebuild life target, but not just giving money.
雪花漂飄 發表評論於
We have to understand here: we are living not just only for money, also self-achievement,self-confidence and indepence social position. And now 武梅 only has money. she feels lost as she does not have self-achievement,self-confidence and indepence social position. Of course, as we said it was her own decision, but not so wise. We should understand her, not blame her anymore.
Of course, her reaction because of own unwise decision and lost is too strong. she should eat this bitter fruit, and restarts her career.
雪花漂飄 發表評論於
On the other hand, I admired that she should not say too much bad words to 公婆.
If you say to 武梅 that we understand her lost, decision is made, and 20 years is big lost really without career. But we cannot change anymore. Maybe 武梅 will feel better.
At least I will feel better and ok.
雪花漂飄 發表評論於
Sorry, 綠一, I did not see this "而且現在雖然鬧成這樣了，每個月的錢，還是1分不少的放進她的戶頭裏。不是怕她，而是講理性。越是在這樣的時候，就越不能虧待她。" before I added my comments.
And still we should understand her lost of feeling even she has a lot of money. She lost the target of living after children to university.
雪花漂飄 發表評論於
Sorry:
family members should NOT just only say: it is your own decision. Family member should understand her lost.
雪花漂飄 發表評論於
綠一,I have read all comments, and Mrs. Santa's comments are different, but consider from 武梅 side. We should not only blame 武梅 though she made not-so-wise dicision herself earlier.
1. Do 公婆 still give money to her now after children to unversity? I suppose no, so 武梅 feels lost. 公婆 giving her money before let 武梅 having a wrong impression that she can be @home in whole life with this payment. 武梅 was just not so wise to realize this earlier that children will be independen in about 20 years, still she needs being indepent in the rest of your life, so now the situation becomes so clear,she is so regereting to realize this. If we say she should be responsible for this not so wise decision is rational, but not so fair to 武梅.
I think if the family say to 武梅 appreciate her work in last 20 years, and it is really a pity for her career, then she will feel much better, and not fight for the property.
2. And this 20 years is really so important in the whole life of a person. whether or not 公婆's money = 武梅's 20 years' career is not possible to answer now. We have to admire that 武梅's 20 years cannot be back, money can be paied back easily, of course it is her own decision, but sometime decision is not so wise while you were young, family members should just only say: it is your own decision. Family member should understand her lost.
I believe that 武梅 will feel better and restart her career if family is not just blame her and admire her 20 years of young is really invaluable.
Why I am saying this here is my own life expereience: I am not so unwise as 武梅, and I am still having my career, I did not select being home. However, I have sacrificed my time and energy to support my husband, but he is not appreciate that much, and just say, it was my own decision. I feel very lost, and now I would not support him that much anymore. Of course, family will be in trouble in this situation. And some husband even requires divorcing after wife supported in hard time.
So 武梅's alttitude is not so right, but her lost is understandable. She and her husband really should go to see phycologist, but not just blaming her, not so fair.
Talking about MBA making big bucks I did know a woman (Chinese) who had an MBA degree and had not worked a single day. My impression was that she was not even smart. There was no logic in whatever she was trying to say. I really wondered who would hire her as a manager of any sort. I don't believe that MBA automatically means big bucks and professional success.
1800900 發表評論於
回複綠一的評論:
Sorry. I probably 想太多了, as nanatao said :-)
Probably the 公婆 interfered in their son's marriage a little too much, so that the woman ended up not feeling that it's her own life she had lived but the man's (or his family's).
nanatao 發表評論於
“Why did 武梅的公婆每個月給她5位數的補貼 to take care of her own children? It's her marriage, her family, her children. Why did her 公婆 need to pay her for that?“
你是不是想的太多了，這就像在國內很多條件好的公婆會給兒子兒媳補貼一樣，希望他們生活得好一些而已。武梅生的孩子也是她自己的，不是公婆強迫她生的呀。有時候看來不能做好事，如果公婆不給錢反而不會印來這樣的揣測了。
1800900 發表評論於
回複綠一的評論:
Why did 武梅的公婆每個月給她5位數的補貼 to take care of her own children? It's her marriage, her family, her children. Why did her 公婆 need to pay her for that?
It sounds for me like that the man's family (the 公婆 and the man) bought the woman to produce children for the family.
Also it sounds like that the woman was married more to the 公婆 than to her husband.
回複1800900的評論:
As matter of facts, I should make comments to her old bunch of stories. Every story of hers was to stand in the ancient Chinese man's shoes to criticize woman. I just can't stand she constantly spread her female-inferiority opinion all over to poison the public forum.
1800900 發表評論於
Mrs.Santa:
Honestly I think you kind of overreact a little too much.
The question is how many % of total family assets the 40 million bucks equates. After 10 years marriage, the housewife or househusband entitled half of family assets no matter what.
First it sounds unbelievable, but there are so many rediculous people in the world. Several weeks ago, I heard the news from CNN that one divorced woman claimed the 40 million she got from her several-year marriage was too little to keep her normal life going. She signed the pre-nup before the marriage.
