Professor Kerry Brown

Professor Kerry Brown 西方對中國虛偽

Professor Kerry Brown | This House Believes the West is Hypocritical Towards China 

 Cambridge Union

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GIvyqifJ8iA

克裏·布朗教授是倫敦國王學院中國研究教授兼劉氏中國研究所所長。他曾擔任查塔姆研究所高級研究員兼亞洲項目負責人。1998年至2005年，他在英國外交和聯邦事務部工作，並曾擔任英國駐華大使館一等秘書。
<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>
我當時確實滿懷熱情地相信，中國的發展軌跡必須
包含某種形式的政治參與決策，而且我確實認為中國必須經曆政治轉型。上世紀90年代中期，我住在內蒙古。我記得那年在從北京到廣州的火車上，我和一位北京大學的學生就中國收回香港時必須遵守所有條約義務的問題進行了激烈的爭論。我們進行了一番激烈的爭論。她說，嗯，我們還是談點別的吧。嗯，我記得那些爭論。我記得在21世紀初，中國經曆了曆史上最偉大的GDP爆炸式增長之一，在四年內翻了兩番，十年內經濟翻了兩番，真是不可思議。我記得我為世界民主運動做過一個項目，大約在北京奧運會期間，我四處奔波。我考察了CI不同地方的家庭委員會，我考察了歐盟在雲南開展的民主支持項目，我記得在北京附近考察過一些農村民主項目，那裏有3000，嗯，300萬官員，是通過公開選舉任命的，隻有一個黨派或非黨派人士可以參選，但我認為，隨著中產階級的崛起和人均GDP的增長，你必須進行改革，才能建立像西方那樣的製度，所以我有過這樣的經曆，我記得我和民主活動人士打過交道，看到他們遭受的苦難，我記得我見過一些蒙古的活動人士，他們被嚴重毆打，我的一個朋友，哈達在那裏開了一家書店，為了促進多元化和開放，他被關了15年，你知道，我知道人們遭受了多少苦難我
絕對不是在貶低或輕視他們非凡的勇氣，以及那些仍在為此奮鬥的中國人民。我對他們隻有欽佩。然而，問題不在於此，而在於我們，正如前麵幾位發言者所說，在於我們做得如何。實際上，我認為有四件事
會讓任何中國官員或其他人士對西方人在過去30年裏所說的任何話都產生懷疑。首先，他們
應該真正意識到
西方在1991年蘇聯解體時對俄羅斯所說的
絕對可怕的後果。我們
不懷好意，不懷好意，強加給他們
經濟和政治模式，
導致了我們今天看到的
俄羅斯的發展水平
下降，男性死亡率下降，這對經濟來說是一場災難，它對中國產生了巨大的影響。這也是為什麽共產主義在中國仍然是一個熱門話題
最重要的原因。中國
是因為他們目睹了蘇聯發生的事情，並了解到比共產主義更糟糕的事情是什麽，呃，比共產主義更糟糕的事情是什麽，他們
看到了第二個是2001年的恐怖襲擊，當時我在北京，在大使館任職，記得從一開始，我們就
告訴中國它必須
遵守世貿組織的義務，它必須
你知道，就像小布什一直在說的
中國是我們的人權問題，這是一個巨大的價值觀問題，但當美國受到攻擊時，它突然變成了我們的盟友，
我們把幾個呃，西方武裝組織，新疆組織，東突厥斯坦伊斯蘭運動和其他組織列入了
恐怖分子名單，我的意思是，我們幾乎在一夜之間就改變了主意。第三個是2008年的大經濟危機，大約在那個時候，
我為世界民主運動工作，
在中國四處奔走，
尋找潛在的模式，我
還記得，我們不僅在西方傳播了
非常糟糕的政治改革理念，這些理念如果中國聽了我們的建議，將會是一場災難，
而且我們也是糟糕的資本主義者，我的意思是，如果中國采取了
一些導致2008年金融危機的
資本主義措施，
美國其他國家也采取了這些措施，
那麽，它
很可能就會被拋在一邊。
實際的結果是，它變得非常懷疑。我認為，如果沒有2008年的經濟大危機，我們就不會
有辛平和他的政治風格。
但最終，過去10年裏，美國、歐洲和其他地方發生的一係列奇怪而詭異的事件，
表明我們的政治體係
沒有中國真正可以學習的東西。我知道這很有用。
我不認為中國不想
改革，我確信它確實想
改革，但我們沒有特別好的模式。我不認為我們
有任何好的模式了。這就是為什麽我是一個
改革派偽君子。所以我認為
有兩件事
與我們處於這種境地的深層原因真正相關。第一點是，
之前有人提到過，
特別是關於英國，
我們想要什麽？我剛剛寫了一本關於英國與中國關係的曆史，
從1600年到現在，
發生了巨大的逆轉。
在所有好書店都有。
大學出版社的廣告裏有一段關於英國在
何時最強大，
何時最強大，
那是在19世紀後期，當時帝國海事
海關在羅伯特·赫德（Robert Hart）的領導下運行，
霍爾斯特曼（Uholsterman）
中國財政
體係的三分之一在
之下。當時的清政府
英國擁有絕對的霸權
我們擁有世界上最大的領事體係
我們在中國修建鐵路
我們開采礦產
我們擁有大約70%的外國投資
我們在打字叛亂中
通過與清朝軍隊並肩作戰
拯救了清朝
我們擁有絕對的主導地位
然而我們從未
談論過價值觀
在我們權力巔峰時期
我們不希望中國成為一個像我們一樣的強國
我們想要的是我們的政策
非常非常簡單，我們希望中國不要
強大到對我們構成威脅
我們也不希望它
虛弱到崩潰
我們受自身利益驅使，而這一直是
我們關係的曆史基礎
我們不希望的
我們想要的
我們對華政策往往是我們
不希望中國變成的樣子
而不是我們
希望中國變成的樣子
當我們進入21世紀時，我們有一種這是一個非常明顯的戰略選擇，而我認為我們是偽君子的原因是，我們必須非常誠實地說明，為什麽我們對中國的現狀和運作方式有異議。我們行事不誠實，因為我們從2??0世紀90年代開始就參與其中，通過加入世界貿易組織等等，都抱著一種賭注，認為我們最終會得到一個看起來有點像我們的中國，但問題在於，它過於強大，不會崩潰，但願上帝保佑，它不會崩潰。但問題是，我們從未想到，中國會在一個截然不同的模式下取得成功，而這正是我們今天所看到的。這個令人難以置信的中國異類，對我們來說是個問題，不是因為它不是資本主義，而是因為它是一個比我們更好的資本主義，它是一個實踐著達倫·波爾（Darren Boer）——一位非常優秀的斯科特·美國人——張成（Shing Jang）所說的東西的資本主義。地球資本主義，一種沒有任何勞工權利的資本主義，一種沒有任何限製的資本主義，它比我們更好。我們對中國的問題是，它正在做我們自認為比我們更擅長的事情。這就是為什麽我認為我們是偽君子。最終，我們所有人，無論我們來自哪裏，都隻是因為，我們在這所大學，在這樣的環境中，都是啟蒙運動的子孫。偉大的啟蒙價值觀。如果你看看啟蒙運動，歐洲人重視的關於中國的理念，被三位偉大的人物——萊因茨·蒙特斯庫和……嗯……沃隆特爾——很好地捕捉到了。300年前，他們非常非常清楚地捕捉到了為什麽今天我們……仍然像啟蒙運動的……歐洲人或啟蒙文化中的人們一樣，無論我們身處哪個政治領域，對中國的態度都如此矛盾。一方麵，他們捕捉到了對中國的一種偉大的理想主義。沃隆特爾在百科全書中寫道，中國是一個……比英國更好的製度。你知道，比起歐洲人，這是一種理想的、令人困惑的精英統治製度，呃，蒙特斯庫寫道，這是一種專製的、邪惡的製度，除了帶來可怕的後果和生命之外，它什麽也做不了。今晚，棄權者有點像這種製度，所以我認為這抓住了我們看待中國時的本質。今天的中國，我們看到一個實體，它從根本上與我們對抗，不是因為所有這些可怕的人權問題，是的，我完全理解我們的政治精英，而是因為中國正在做一件我們從未想過它會做的事情，我們不希望它做，我們也無法容忍它做，而它正在今天的製度下取得成功。

Professor Kerry Brown | This House Believes the West is Hypocritical Towards China 

 Cambridge Union

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GIvyqifJ8iA

Professor Kerry Brown is Professor of Chinese Studies and director of the Lau China Institute at King’s College London. He has previously worked as Senior Fellow and Head of the Asia Programme at Chatham House. From 1998-2005, he worked at the British Foreign and Commonwealth Office, including as First Secretary at the British Embassy in Beijing.
<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>
I really did passionately believe that the whole trajectory in China would have to
embrace some kind of political participation in decision-m and I did think that China would have to go through a political transition and then I lived in Inner Mongolia in the mid 1990s and I remember having a massive argument on a train trip from Beijing to Guanghou that year uh with a student from Beijing University about how uh you know China in taking back Hong Kong had to observe all of the treaty obligations and we kind of had this massive round she just said um let's just talk about something else um so I do remember you know kind of those debates i remember in the 2000s when China underwent one of the great kind of explosions of GDP growth of all time it quadrupled its economy in four uh for in a decade i mean incredible and I remember doing a project for the world
movement for democracy where I went around around about the time of the
Beijing Olympics uh and looked at different places in ci household
committees i looked at uh democracy supporting projects the European Union
was running I think in Yunan i remember looking uh near Beijing at some of the
projects there uh for village democracy and 3,000 um 3 million officials had
been appointed through these uh open
elections only one party could stand or
non-party members but I kind of thought
with a rising middle class with per
capita GDP rising you would have to have
uh reforms that would bring about
systems like in the west so I had that
experience and I remember uh dealing
with democracy activists and seeing as
the person said earlier how they
suffered i remember looking at some of
the activists in in Mongolia who'd been
banged up very badly one of my friends
Hada who ran a bookshop there kind of
promoting pluralism and openness uh was
put in jail for 15 years i mean you know
I know how people have suffered so I'm
not at all denigrating and belittling
their incredible courage and the people
that still struggle for this in China i
have nothing but admiration for them
however this is not about that it's
about us as the previous speakers have
said it's about how did we do and
actually there are four things that I
think would have made any Chinese
official or otherwise really skeptical
of anything Westerners said over the
last 30 years the first is that they
would have been really aware of the
absolutely awful outcomes of what the
West told Russia when the USSR collapsed
in 1991 uh we went with bad faith we
went with bad faith and foisted on them
uh economic and a political model which
has resulted with the things we see
today uh developmental levels in Russia
fell male mortality fell it was a
calamity for the economy it had a huge
impact in China the greatest reason why
communism is still a live issue in China
is because of what they saw happened in
the USSR and learning that what's the
worst thing uh what is the worst thing
than communism what comes after it they
saw that the second is the 2001
terrorist attacks i was in Beijing
serving at the embassy at the time now
remember from one minute we went from
telling China about how it had to
observe the WTO obligations and it had
to you know kind of George Bush the
younger was going on all the time about
how um you know China was our human
rights it was massive massive issues of
values but the moment America was
attacked it suddenly became our ally and
we put I think a couple of uh wea groups
Shinjang groups etim and others on the
terrorist list i mean we changed almost
overnight the third was the great
economic crisis in 2008 about the time
that I was working for the world
movement democracy in China going around
and looking at potential models and I
remember how the profound impact of not
only were we purveyors in the west of
really terrible uh political reform
ideas which have been would have been a
catastrophe if China had listened to us
but we were also lousy capitalists i
mean if China had adopted some of the
capitalist measures that led to 2008
that American others had it would have
probably fallen by the wayside the
actual result was that it became deeply
skeptical i don't think we would have
sinping and his style of politics if we
hadn't had the 2008 great economic
crisis but the final thing is the
absolute calvade of kind of strange and
weird events over the last 10 years in
America and Europe and elsewhere that
have shown that our political systems do
not have things that China can really
learn from and know would be functional
i don't think it is that China doesn't
want to reform i'm sure it does want to
reform but we don't have particularly
good models i don't believe that we have
any good models anymore that's why I'm a
reformed hypocrite so I think that there
are two things that I would say really
relevant to the deeper reason why we're
in this situation the first is and
someone alluded to it to to it earlier
and particularly about Britain what do
we want i've just uh written a history
of Britain's relations with China since
1600 to the present day great reversal
out in all good bookshops yo University
Press advert over that has uh you know
kind of a section on when Britain was
most powerful when was Britain most
powerful in China it was in the late
19th century when the imperial maritimes
custom ran under Robert Hart a uh
olsterman a third of the Chinese fiscal
system under theQing government at that
time Britain had absolute supremacy we
had the world's largest consular system
in China we were building railways we
were building mines we had something
like 70% of all foreign investment in
China we had literally saved theQing in
the typing rebellion uh by fighting on
the side of the imperial troops we had
absolute primacy we did not however ever
talk about values we did not at the peak
of our power want China to be a power
like us what we wanted our policy was
very very simple we wanted China not to
be so strong that it would be a threat
to us and we didn't want it to be so
weak that it would fall apart we were
driven by self-interest that has been
the historic basis of our relationship
what we don't what we want what we our
policy towards China is often what we
don't want China to be it's not what we
do want China to be when we come to the
21st century we have a kind of really
really obvious strategic choice and the
reason why I think that we are
hypocrites is because we need to be very
honest about why we have an issue with
China being the way it is and
functioning the way it is we acted in
bad faith because we engaged from the
1990s onwards and through the World
Trade Organization entry and all those
things hedging on a bet that we would
end up with a China that looked a bit
like us but was um not a problem by
being too strong and wouldn't Lord
forbid fall
apart but the problem is what we didn't
ever expect is a China that would
succeed under a very different model and
that's what's happened we have today
this incredible anomaly of a China which
is a problem to us not because it isn't
a capitalist the problem is that it is a
capitalist that's better than us it's a
capitalist that practices what Darren
Boer a very good Scott American Shing
Jang calls terra capitalism a capitalism
without any labor rights a capitalism
without any restraints it is a better
capitalist than us our problem with
China is that it is doing the things
that we thought we were good at better
than us that is why I think that we are
hypocrites and very finally all of us
here wherever we're from just because
we're at this university in this
environment we are children of the
enlightenment the great enlightenment
values if you look at the enlightenment
Europeans values the kind of ideas about
China were really well captured by three
great figures Linets Montescu and um um
Volonteer and they capture very very
well 300 years ago why today we are
still so conflicted as enlightenment
Europeans or people in the enlightenment
culture wherever we are in the political
west towards China
they captured on the one hand a great
idealism towards China volater wrote in
the encyclopedia about how China was a
better system than Britain you know than
Europeans it was a kind of ideal
confusion meritocratic system uh
Montescu wrote about how it was despotic
an evil system that couldn't really you
know kind of deliver anything except
terrible outcomes and livets was the
abstainer bit like the kind of system
tonight and so this kind of I think
captures who we are when we look at
China today we kind of see an entity
which antagonizes us fundamentally not
because of all of these terrible human
rights issues yeah I completely
recognize those for our political elite
it is because China is doing the one
thing that we never thought it would do
and we didn't want it to do and we can't
stomach it doing and that is succeeding
under the system it has today