The Athens Democracy Forum turns 10 this year and is marking this milestone with a rich roster of distinguished speakers, presenting their views on the theme: “A Decade of Democracy: Now What?”
Speakers will include European Commission President Ursula von der Leyen, Greek President Katerina Sakellaropoulou and her Ukrainian counterpart Volodymyr Zelenskyy, the United Nations’ former secretary-general, Ban Ki-Moon, and its Deputy High Commissioner for Human Rights Nada Al-Nashif, and Columbia University professor Jeffrey Sachs, among many others.
Organized by the Democracy and Culture Foundation with the support of The New York Times, the September 28-30 event will include both in-person and virtual appearances and can be watched online, live from the Greek capital’s Zappeio Hall, Stoa of Attalos and Athens Academy.
Agenda highlights include discussions on how technological advances in areas like AI can be used in strengthening a democratic culture and on climate change as a gender issue. For details, visit athensdemocracyforum.com.
If Aristotle and Confucius were able to come together to talk about globalization today, could they ultimately resolve some of its most pressing challenges? This dialogue imagines the two philosophers debating and determining the ways models of democracy and governance need to evolve.
Ban Ki-moon, 8th Secretary General of the United Nations; Chair, Ban Ki-moon Foundation for a Better Future
Jeffrey Sachs, Director, Center for Sustainable Development, Columbia University
Moderated by Roger Cohen, Paris Bureau Chief, The New York Times and Host of the Athens Democracy Forum
civilizations so 2016 we established the Socrates Confucius
dialogue a couple of years ago when I spoke to Jeffrey Sachs
he asked me why Socrates it should be Aristotle so five years later
we will do the Aristotle and Confucius dialogue
so Confucius Moon and Aristotle Jeff sacks please join
Roger Cohen who will facilitate this dialogue and prevent us from this Clash
of civilization welcome everybody to the Democracy Forum 10th edition
long enough looking at those images that we saw to see that a few years have
passed um I am very happy to see you all here
and rather remarkably I'm joined tonight by Aristotle on my left and Confucius on
my right uh I'm not sure what Socrates feels about his replacement by you Aristotle
maybe he'll tell us but in any event it's a great pleasure to have you both here on the stage
uh we're meeting at a difficult moment
um there's a war in Europe nuclear weapons the use of them is being
threatened our societies seem to have a great deal of difficulty determining what the truth
is some people speak of post-truth societies inflation is rising
soaring food and energy prices are rising rapidly
and there's a great deal of disillusionment in our societies
I'd like to turn first to you Aristotle what is to be done about these problems
what should we do to try to make a better world
thank you very much for this wonderful opportunity I can tell you it's very
easy for me to uh take this position because for 10
years I had the incredible honor to be special advisor
to Secretary General ban ki-moon and I always felt that I was advising Confucius uh I really always felt that I
was advising an extraordinarily wise man who understood
the core of confucius's approach which was relationships
because the Secretary General would always explain to me if I'm meeting my
Chinese counterpart or my American counterpart or my counterpart from Germany what are these special
implications and feelings what are the proper rights in order to honor the
counterparts and by honoring those counterparts he accomplished remarkable
things the Secretary General in fact bringing us the two most important agreements of modern times the
sustainable development goals and the Paris climate agreement and those are
agreements that reached 193 member countries
to do that you need the wisdom of Confucius
so what does Aristotle bring to this you may I
remind you you are Aristotle and why do I sit as Aristotle and I suggested not
as Socrates Socrates of course was declared by the Oracle at Delphi as the wisest person in
the world he had great doubts about that so he spent his life asking people about what
is a good life they could never give a coherent answer so he finally realized maybe I am the
wisest person because I know I don't know the answers to these questions and that was his conclusion
but my sense is that his philosophical grandchild from Eric Socrates to Plato
and Plato to Aristotle did no important answers
Aristotle gave us the two greatest books on this topic of
human well-being ever written in the western tradition and they come together as a volume
the first is the nicomachian ethics about personal Behavior
and it is paired with the politics which is the invention of political science
but not Machiavelli's political science Aristotle's political sciences politics
for the good for the human good politics based on ethics
now Aristotle told us something of enduring value
2 300 years of enduring value but I think in the Modern Age the first thing
Aristotle would have done is to pick up the phone or send a WhatsApp to
Confucius and say could you come over to the Athens Forum we need to talk
and here you are here you are because it seems to me like our theories while
they're phrased differently are really similar because both of our theories put the essence of a good Society in virtue
it's the virtue of the leaders it's the virtue of the citizens this is the core
of Aristotle's political thought and confucius's political thought
we lost it in the year 1514 when Machiavelli told us no it's not virtue
it's how tricky you can be and then politics became managing power
not cultivating virtue and well-being and I believe that we need Aristotle and
Confucius back again as our real guides not the study of power but the
management of human well-being based on virtue because we've lost even the
concept of this ladies and gentlemen of what is a virtuous life and before we
hear from Confucius I want to say my favorite part about Confucius because it
also exemplifies Secretary General ban ki-moon he said if we can come to appreciate and
understand courtesy and music better there will be
no more war and I want to put underscoring on
courtesy because it's not even a concept in my country no courtesy we have the right to
do this we do what we want Nancy Pelosi we fly to Taiwan because we can do that
no courtesy if there's no courtesy there can be no peace
there will only be War so Confucius has it exactly right we need courtesy thank
you thank you very much Aristotle uh Confucius if I may turn to you and
please remember you are Confucius when you say I you are speaking as Confucius Confucius
in an age where everybody can shout publicly through social media and
there's so much noise and as Aristotle just said um a loss of a sense of politeness
respect courtesy um is it too much to ask that your
virtues the virtues you believe in be respected
first of all it's a great honor to participate in this 10th things democracy forum for the first
time but last May I participated in the regional Forum in Seoul so this is my
second time and thank you madam a present for your presence now thank you
Professor Jeffrey sucks for your very kind words around me in fact he was my
special advisor but I was his you know student in in fact when it comes to
Logics and teachings I hope that Confucius would not be angry
about me if I misinterpret what he had taught us
as an as a nation and Korean student from the very young age we have been
taught what Confucius allowed to and many other Asian great thinkers and
Scholars have been teaching us so I've been really trying to use that kind of
wisdom during my time as Secretary General United Nations is composed of
many tens of thousands of people who come from different different backgrounds now here what I'm going to
tell you about the theme of this Athens democracy Forum
the white democracy format this time organized by New York Times and why we are here
because the most of the countries are going through very difficult times
because of the lack of leadership of our
leaders who either elected or Kings or whatever positions that they may have
I have met the hundreds of world leaders present prime minister and
ministers but what I have found during my time unfortunately and this is
exactly why I'm here I found that there is some
something missing in their leadership quality what is that
missing that's a global vision and global citizenship among so many
world leaders current and test it was very hard
to find genuinely Global leader with the global
citizenship that's why you may you should know that the first
thing I did after my retirement was to establish a pan given Center for
Global Citizens in Vienna where one of the United Nations headquartered is
located I really wanted to train and educate the succeeding
generations with some global citizenship then what does a global citizenship
means if anybody is with global citizenship then I don't
think we are now suffering from all these political conflicts and poverty and human rights abuses that is what I'm
going to say now then what did Confucius said to us
he said as a leadership quality the governance of once a governor I mean
governing governing rule is followed by
the families governing covenants of the family then is followed by the
governance of the state then if
this means for example if you behave well
with Integrity in your family then you will be able
to govern the country then if you can govern the country peacefully then you can achieve the
world in peace this is what what Confucius taught us I really wanted
to follow his teachings ask you a direct question Confucius
remember you are Confucius what might President Putin learn from
Reading you President Putin yes if you read you you
wrote these all these extraordinary things I met him I met him many times
during my time but I was a deeply deeply
disappointed by what he had done against the Ukrainian people his illegal
aggression of Ukraine should be condemned
as strong as the possible tongues as a member of the elders
uh the private organization founded by Nelson Mandela composed of former heads
of state and government and Overlord I'm working as a vice chairman of these elders and we condemned his
aggression and we even urged the International Community to
establish a special tribunal criminal tribunal to make accountability on him I
visited Ukraine on August 16th with former president of Colombia Juan Manuel
Santos who is a Nobel Nobel Laureate I was deeply deeply preconcerned and it
was a horrendous atrocities atrocities which were
committed by Russian soldiers then at that time I was also very much
disappointed by the silence by many countries around the world
except a few except the American Europeans and some countries in Asia
like a Japan and South Korea that most of the countries all the countries in Africa Latin America Middle East I think
they've been keeping silence eyes I spoke out in this case of
aggression and then silence is not an option neutrality is not an option
the famous very respected Desmond Tutu attribution Desmond Tutu he once said
if you keep silence in the face of Injustice 10 means you are joining the side of
oppressor this is what I'm going to tell you thank you
Aristotle if I may turn to you um you've you've journeyed through time and done extraordinary things
um to get here you have in your writings uh the idea of the the golden mean the
idea that balance um is essential to life um
moderation um Aristotle do you as you look around uh
the world do you feel that we've we've lost that sense of balance that we just
hurtle Helter Skelter from one thing to another and had lost this concept that can be an
orienting compass in life I think that the war and the
geopolitical crisis between the U.S and China is a
reflection also of the loss of balance but not only in the way that it is
commonly understood I Aristotle
I guess uh yes was a I happen to be advisor to President Gorbachev and it's
extraordinary how did you how did you do that were you on a because when some kind of what you learned in someone's
greatest philosopher you could do all sorts of things uh and and the advisor to president Yeltsin and the advisor to
president kuchma uh in the first years of Ukrainian Independence so I saw
one crucial thing which was that at the end of the Cold War the United
States and Germany promised to the Soviet Union into Russia
if you disband the Warsaw Pact we will not extend NATO you actually witnessed
this Aristotle you are saying that you witnessed it's disputed by
former secretary James Baker you name it it is you you saw you heard that you
were in the room if if anybody if anybody would like to write to Aristotle's email address sax
columbia.edu I will send you to the archival files that show explicitly how
Hans Dietrich denture said explicitly we will not move an inch East
and also how the Secretary General of NATO in the NATO meeting in 1990 said we will
not move East at all so Aristotle you're blaming the current crisis on the west
breaking its promises I am blaming the current crisis on the lack of balance
and moderation absolutely because the idea that this is only one side is a
myth this is a crisis that has been brewing for 30 years and every year
Russia said please do not come closer to our borders please do not come closer to
our borders please do not come closer to our borders that's the truth ladies and
gentlemen and in 2008 nonetheless do you interrupt Aristotle well
sometimes I'm obliged to I'm I know you've come a long way you must be tired but I feel it's uh I feel I have to from
time to time no Aristotle so the these broken
promises they were uh they would not have been broken if the leaders had been
wise enough to consult you is that what you're saying we had very wise Statesmen Statesmen who
followed confusion and Aristotelian thought like you think that you really
think they're one and the same like George Cannon who said in 1997 NATO
expansion will lead to the next Cold War he said it immediately and we entered a
region of Crisis and being Aristotle I called the White House last year and I
said please stop the NATO enlargement because maybe we can still have peace but they're not philosophers they're
people of action and they were not interested in stopping any expansion
they declared three times in 2021 that Ukraine will be a member of NATO we
trapped Ukraine in the middle of this battle between these two giants it's an utter tragedy for Ukraine an utter
tragedy because if you have Aristotelian Prudence what the Greeks
call phronesis wisdom contextual wisdom if you have
Temperance moderation so frozeny in Greek
if you have the sense of justice style can dial
oh excuse my Greek
what is it thou kiss me yes if you have these virtues you know don't push the other
side don't fly to Taiwan because we have the right to do so exercise Prudence
moderation sense of justice respect for the other side and then you won't have
War this is what Confucius meant when he said if you come to understand and
appreciate courtesy we will not have War courtesy please courtesy so Aristotle
are you in despair [Applause]
Aristotle have you despair this Century we uh we're not yet
a quarter of the way through the century but Aristotle you seem to be writing us off because we've lost touch
with the most fundamental values that we need for a peaceful world that's a very
pessimistic message from such a brilliant man Aristotle was not um
I am not a pessimist because what I teach
is that human beings have two sides they have the sides of selfishness and
they have the sides of virtue but the goal is to cultivate virtue
in Greece Greek excellence personal excellence
political excellence and what we teach as philosophers is not
that human beings are intrinsically good or intrinsically evil but they are
teachable that virtue can be cultivated exactly
what my colleague Confucius says that people can learn virtues
now I also know and I'll just say things it's every generation's
responsibility to keep working for virtue because it's never a
done deal and the greatest philosophers my teacher Plato
was attempted three times to be an advisor to the governor of syracusa
he failed all three times it's hard to be a foreign advisor by the way
they don't listen to you even to my teacher Plato but it doesn't mean you can be
pessimistic it means we have to redouble our efforts at our own virtue
because by cultivating our own virtue we cultivate the response in others as well
that's the idea of courtesy thank you thank you very much so Confucius
um Confucius
um given what you said previously I imagine that hearing from
your distinguished fellow philosopher Aristotle that the West is
partially somewhat maybe largely to blame for
the war in Ukraine that seems to be quite a long way from what you were saying so Confucius
what do you feel about that
first of all what is conflict among the countries and between the countries
I'm deeply deeply worried and angry that even in this 21st century
now countries are trying to occupy by forces by force a certain territory this
is a totally unacceptable at the same time I am deeply concerned about the
weakening of multilateralism if a multilateralism has been supported and
strengthened the United Nations systems particularly Security Council
has been really up to the commitment
in the chart of the United Nations I think we should not so on the unnecessary suffer from all this
particular people from you know Ukraine and therefore
is I'm as a former Secretary General I'm very sorry that the United Nations has
not been able to discharge is a chart of provision Charter Duty
there should be some loud and clear
from the International Community that they should reform the security Council
during my time just a lot of such discussions and even French government
has offered voluntarily that they would be willing to refrain from exercising
fetal power when it comes to purely humanitarian issues like in the case of
Syria when a lot of people were suffering from this then
most of the member you know veto power they rejected this one that's where we
stopped therefore we should not repeat what we had been repeatedly making
failures this is what I'm urging again
we have to meet meet the demands of the international
committee there are many people who are suffering from Hunger abject poverty there are many people who are whose
human rights are abused by big powers and
some people with the powers this is something which we cannot you know
accept at this time thank you Confucius um I I imagine that I mean Aristotle was
talking about how top secret he's been advising Western leaders about various
things I imagine you uh as Confucius that you've probably been advising Xi
Jinping also about what he should do what have you been telling Xi Jinping
about the possibility of uh an invasion of Taiwan for example I
imagine that you've been urging him to show restraint I am deeply
disappointed by what Chinese and particularly India and some other
countries have taken positions uh the
loud another great Chinese scholar who
lived almost at the same time with the Confucius even he was born 20 years even before
Confucius many people know about Consciousness but not much no not much people know about
loud Sim he said in his teaching and
that the way the heaven is to or help
the way to Heaven is now let me see the way of
Heaven is to be beneficial to all all the things and the way of sage is
serving the people without competition without competing this means when it
comes to some disagreement then you have to really um
compromise with other people Professor sax mentioned about the China
and U.S relationship at this time without United States and China working
together it will be almost impossible to address all Global challenges not to
mention climate change but also all these Global Security issues and
therefore what I'm urging both leaders of course the significant difference in
political systems ideologies and the way they are doing but I think at this time
when you really want to address all these Global challenges we have to
join all our hands on the deck together both U.S and China must work together
otherwise it will be only the people it will be only the countries who will
suffer there are some some Scholars have suggested that I think they um
their relationship if they change the course of their work I think we can make
some progress thank you I can say there may be three capital C's
cooperation competition conflict but they began with the
conflict when you begin with the conflict then nothing can happen
let them cooperate thank you very much in transparent manner in the course of
this competition and cooperation there will be a way of a mutually
understanding better this is what Asian way of thinking can help resolve all
these problems thank you so much confused the final word from from you Aristotle and it needs to be too quick
I'm sorry I know it's been a big effort to get here but when you look at East West
relations um are you are you worried that your
Universal ideas are only understood in in part of the world do you think there is a fundamental
issue in East-West understanding I I literally think that the fact that
the core of Aristotelian virtues and confusion
virtues are so similar is the core basis for
hope there is a common Humanity that can cooperate together can work
together can build virtue together there is zero intrinsic reason for conflict
between the U.S and China the problem is actually a little bit of
uh U.S neurotic reaction to China's rise
China is viewed as a threat it should not be viewed as a threat China should be
viewed as a normal country trying to have a normal life in this planet it
just happens to have a lot of people in it and that makes it big but the idea that it is some threat that
must be combated is an unvirtuous idea because China and the United States and
the West can cooperate with each other and we have to cooperate with each other but Aristotle you see no difference
between American democracy and the Chinese surveillance state I think it's absolutely important to
understand something about my philosophy and please re-read the politics I will I
will I promise It's a Wonderful book and it says something there are three basic
forms of government by the one by the few and by the many but they each have a
good side and they each have a bad side the good side of the one is monarchy the
bad side of the one is tyranny the good side of the few is aristocracy the bad
side of the few is oligarchy the good side of the many is Republic
the bad side is uh is uh he called it
democracy by the way but just uh so you know it it is uh Mob rule
so we shouldn't saying the United States today is a state of mob rule did I
understand you correctly we have mob rule in the United States to a large extent you should be very clear we had a
mob attack our Capital led by the president of the United States that's mob rule that's pure populism that
worried Aristotle a lot when he wrote in 330 BC that we would have populists like
Donald Trump or Boris Johnson or many others but the attention was reposed and what in the
end nothing's in the end that's the whole point everything is a continuing
effort for the good and we are so far from achieving the good that we need to
achieve we need to do better but my point is the following we should not
judge simplistically another social system
even another political system by simplistic categories I never did as
philosopher I asked the question is this for the common good
one thing about China that I would like to emphasize China went from 80 percent
extreme poverty in 1980 to no extreme poverty 40 years later it is the most
successful economic development in history it learned a lot from Korea by
the way it learned a lot from Japan it learned a lot from the neighbors it's extraordinarily successful life
expectancy Rose enormously education Rose enormously quality of life Rose enormously hunger
fell completely this is an accomplishment we should take joy in
China's accomplishment not fear from it we should congratulate China for its
good works and we should sit down and understand each other because there is so much common interest but we don't
even talk to each other we point fingers we say they're on the other side of the Divide we don't want to talk
the first bit of wisdom to go back to Socrates is to talk and that's what we
need to do thank you very much Aristotle thank you Confucius thank you [Applause]
[Music]
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A Decade of Democracy: China and Russia
Ten years ago, Xi Jinping ascended to national leadership in China and Vladimir Putin began his second stint as Russia’s president. Over the next decade, both have consolidated power over their countries, and today both unapologetically and jointly proclaim their autocratic, ruthless, macho rule as a more effective model of democracy, winning admirers and imitators the world over. As Putin has pushed this model to unthinkable extremes, what has the effect been on fellow and aspiring autocrats? What is the best way to prevent the template from replicating even further?
Jaroslaw Kuisz, Editor in Chief, Kultura Liberalna
Jeffrey Sachs, Director, Center for Sustainable Development, Columbia University
Su Yun Woo, Postdoctoral Researcher, Institute of Political Science, University of Zurich
Moderated by Steven Erlanger, Chief Diplomatic Correspondent, Europe, The New York Times
Panel Discussion: Preventing Nuclear War and Securing the Future
How should the international community respond to the rising risks of a nuclear war and WMD terrorism? This session will explore the mounting threats of a nuclear war and terrorist attacks involving chemical, biological, radiological, and nuclear weapons. What must be done to enhance the mechanisms and institutions necessary to prevent disastrous consequences, intentional or not? And what should the roles of the United States and China be in such an endeavor?
Ban Ki-moon, 8th Secretary General of the United Nations; Chair, Ban Ki-moon Foundation for a Better Future
Ambassador Angelina Eichhorst, Managing Director, European External Action Service
Jeffrey Sachs, Director, Center for Sustainable Development, Columbia University
Moderated by Steven Erlanger, Chief Diplomatic Correspondent, Europe, The New York Times
News about Prof. Sachs’ participation in the Forum:
