埃隆·馬斯克在迪拜世界政府峰會上談 DOGE

直播：埃隆·馬斯克在迪拜世界政府峰會上談論 DOGE 和人工智能

美聯社 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gGJE6ahMyKk

Key part

我想，有幾種描述方式，但最終的行動是一樣的，比如縮小政府規模，讓政府對人民更加負責，我認為這將為人民帶來更好的結果，你知道我說的是，我們在這裏實際上是官僚統治，而不是人民民主統治，所以，為了恢複人民統治，這意味著縮小聯邦政府的規模，基本上就是減少監管，你知道，隨著時間的推移，出現了大量的過度監管，這是長期繁榮的必然結果，你會得到越來越多的規則和法規，隨著時間的推移，更多的法律會積累起來，而擺脫規則和法規的正常強製功能是戰爭，所以它需要某種生存戰爭，你必須重新設定，以避免在戰爭中失敗，這是從字麵上看，縱觀曆史，這一直是清理法律法規堆積的主要強製功能，如果沒有這些，每年都會出台更多法律法規，直到最終一切都是非法的，一切都是不允許的，這就是我們現在的情況，所以，我們的目標是減少監管，減少政府支出，這樣經濟才能增長得更快，也許經濟可以以 4% 或 5% 的速度增長，就實際有用的商品和服務產出而言，然後政府支出可以減少約 3% 或 4%，大約一萬億美元或更多，其淨效應是從 2025 年到 2026 年沒有通貨膨脹，所以這將是相當了不起的，而且如果美國政府購買更少的債務，我認為情況會是這樣，如果赤字從 2 萬億下降到 1 萬億，那麽政府提供的債務就會減少 1 萬億，當然會下降利率大幅下降，這意味著人們的抵押貸款、汽車貸款、信用卡貸款、學生貸款，無論他們有多少債務，他們的債務償還都會減少，所以我認為這將使普通美國人受益，我認為我們正在做的一些事情也將對其他國家有所幫助，因為新政府對幹涉其他國家事務的興趣減少了，你知道，我認為美國在國際事務中表現得有些咄咄逼人，這可能會引起許多聽眾的共鳴，我認為我們應該讓其他國家管好自己的事，美國應該管好自己的事，而不是到處推動政權更迭，所以對其他國家來說，這可能也是一件好事，所以與其等待戰爭發生，不如去與政府的官僚機構開戰，是的，我們本質上隻是支持，

I guess there's well there's a few ways to describe it but the actions end up being the same um which is like reducing the size of government um and making the government much more accountable to to the people I think is going to lead to a better outcome for the people um you know what I've said is that um we really have here uh rule of the bureaucracy as opposed to
rule of the people democracy so uh in order we want to restore rule of the people and so what that means is reducing the size of the federal government
um uh basically reducing regulation um you know there's there there's a tremendous amount of of overregulation that's happened over time um and this is this is an inevitable consequence of a
long period of prosperity is that you're going to get more and more uh rules and regulations more laws accumulate over
time and the normal forcing function for getting rid of rules and regulations is war so it needs to be some kind of
existential War where you you have to um do a reset in order to and avoid being defeated in a war this is literally the that throughout history has been the main forcing function for clearing out an accumulation of laws and regulation in the absence of that you you every year you get more laws and regulations until eventually everything is illegal and nothing is permitted and that's sort of the situation we have these days so um so the the aspiration here is a reduction in um regulation um and
reduction in govern spending such that um the economy is able to grow faster um maybe the economy can grow at four or 5% potentially of in terms of real useful
goods and services output and the uh and then government spending can be reduced
um by about 3 or 4% of the economy about maybe a trillion dollars or more um and the net effect of that would be no inflation um from 25 2025 to 2026 um so that would be quite remarkable and also if the US government is buying less debt which I think will be the case if it's if the deficit drops from 2 trillion to 1 trillion uh then there'll be 1 trillion less debt that the government you Suppy which will drop of course the interest rates to drop significantly um and that means people's uh mortgage payments uh car payments credit card payments student loans whatever debt they have uh will their debt payments will be less so I think this is something that will benefit the average American um I think some of the things we're doing also will be helpful to hopefully helpful to other countries because with the new Administration there's uh less interest in interfering with the Affairs of of other countries um you know I think uh a lot there the times the United States has been kind of pushy in international Affairs um which may resonate with a number of members of the audience uh um and I think we should uh in general leave other countries to their own business basically America should mind its own business you know um rather than push for regime change all over the place um so yeah um probably a good thing for other countries too so of waiting for a war to happen you went to war against the bureaucracy in the government yes we're we're we're essentially just we're with you know the uh support um an

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尊敬的來賓女士們先生們歡迎來到 2025 年世界政府峰會的第三天，下一個環節是與埃隆·馬斯克和他的閣下進行的題為無聊的城市人工智能和 Doge 的對話

埃隆·馬斯克

是的，首先，我認為我們得到了至少美國公眾的大量支持，我認為也許來自世界各地，當公眾被吸引到某種提高政府效率的問題上時，事實上，我相信這是最受關注的單一問題，這意味著它是一種吸引所有類型選民的東西，我認為提高政府效率，我認為幾乎 70% 的支持率相當高，基本上比任何其他問題都多，所以我認為人們非常支持，嗯，顯然，你知道有一些因素官僚機構不支持，因為我們正在將他們從政府部門轉移到私營部門，所以你知道，在高層，這有點像我們真的隻是將人們從政府部門的低生產率甚至負生產率角色轉移到私營部門的高生產率角色，這樣做的淨效應是增加有用商品和服務的產出，從而提高普通美國人的生活水平和福祉，你通常有一個關鍵目標，你打算在每一個 IND 中實現這個目標，所以人類和多行星物種與特斯拉一起開創了一個省錢的時代，這是在做其他事情嗎？你給自己安排的一項艱巨任務是什麽？嗯，所以嗯，我想有幾種描述方式，但最終的行動是一樣的，就像縮小政府規模，讓政府對人民更加負責，我認為這將為人民帶來更好的結果。我說過的是，我們這裏實際上是官僚統治，而不是人民民主，因此，為了恢複人民統治，這意味著要縮小聯邦政府的規模，嗯，基本上就是減少監管，嗯，你知道，隨著時間的推移，過度監管已經非常嚴重，這是長期繁榮的必然結果，就是你會得到越來越多的規則和法規，隨著時間的推移，越來越多的法律會積累起來，而擺脫規則和法規的正常強製功能是戰爭，所以這需要某種生存戰爭，你必須重新設定，以避免在戰爭中失敗，這實際上是縱觀曆史，清除積累的法律和法規的主要強製功能，如果沒有這些，你每年都會得到更多的法律和法規，直到最終一切都是非法的，什麽都不被允許，這就是情況我們現在有，所以，我們的願望是減少監管，減少政府支出，這樣經濟就能增長得更快，也許經濟可以以實際有用商品和服務產出 4% 或 5% 的速度增長，然後政府支出可以減少，大約 3% 或 4%，大約一萬億美元或更多，而這樣做的淨效應是從 2025 年到 2026 年沒有通貨膨脹，所以，這將是相當了不起的，而且如果美國政府購買更少的債務，我認為情況會是這樣，如果赤字從 2 萬億下降到 1 萬億，那麽政府提供的債務就會減少 1 萬億，當然利率也會大幅下降，這意味著人們的抵押貸款、汽車貸款、信用卡貸款、學生貸款，無論他們有多少債務，他們的債務支付都會減少我認為這會給普通美國人帶來好處，我認為我們正在做的一些事情也會對其他國家有所幫助，因為新政府對幹涉其他國家事務的興趣減少了，你知道，我認為美國在國際事務中表現得有些咄咄逼人，這可能會引起許多聽眾的共鳴，我認為我們應該總體上讓其他國家管好自己的事，美國應該管好自己的事，而不是到處推動政權更迭，所以對其他國家來說，這可能也是一件好事，所以你不是等著戰爭發生，而是去與政府的官僚機構開戰，是的，我們基本上隻是支持你，嗯

LIVE: Elon Musk speaks about DOGE and AI at World Governments Summit in Dubai

Associated Press
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gGJE6ahMyKk

distinguished guests ladies and gentlemen welcome to the third day of the world government Summit 2025, the next session is a conversation titled boring cities Ai
and Doge with Elon Musk and his Excellency 

Elon Musk

yes first of all I think we've got quite a lot of support from
the at least the American public and I think from maybe around the world um the when they when the the public is pulled on sort of improving government efficiency in fact it is I believe the highest pulling uh single uh issue meaning that that it is uh something that appeals to voters from you know of all types and I I think improving government efficiency I think was like almost 70% support quite a lot basically more than more than any other issue so the I think the the people are very supportive um obviously the you know there's certain elements of the bureaucracy that are not supportive because we are making we are moving them from the government sector to the private sector so the you know really at a high level this is kind of like um we're really just we're moving people from low to sometimes negative productivity roles in the government sector to higher productivity roles in the private sector and the net effect of that will be an increase in the output of useful goods and services um which increases the standard of living and well-being of the the average American and you usually have one key Target that you aim to achieve in every single IND that you have so humanity and multiplanetary species with Tesla it's usher in an era saving money is it doing
something else what is the one mean task that you have for yourself um yeah so there's uh I I
guess there's well there's a few ways to describe it but the actions end up being the same um which is like reducing the size of government um and making the government
much more accountable to to the people I think is going to lead to a better outcome for the people um you know what
I've said is that um we really have here uh rule of the bureaucracy as opposed to
rule of the people democracy so uh in order we want to restore rule of
the people and so what that means is reducing the size of the federal government
um uh basically reducing regulation um you know there's there there's a
tremendous amount of of overregulation that's happened over time um and this is this is an inevitable consequence of a
long period of prosperity is that you're going to get more and more uh rules and regulations more laws accumulate over
time and the normal forcing function for getting rid of rules and regulations is war so it needs to be some kind of
existential War where you you have to um do a reset in order to and avoid being
defeated in a war this is literally the that throughout history has been the main forcing function for clearing out
an accumulation of laws and regulation in the absence of that you you every year you get more laws and regulations
until eventually everything is illegal and nothing is permitted and that's sort of the situation we have these days so
um so the the aspiration here is a reduction in um regulation um and
reduction in govern spending such that um the economy is able to grow faster um
maybe the economy can grow at four or 5% potentially of in terms of real useful
goods and services output and the uh and then government spending can be reduced
um by about 3 or 4% of the economy about maybe a trillion dollars or more um and
the net effect of that would be no inflation um from 25 2025 to 2026 um so
that would be quite remarkable and also if the US government is buying less debt which I think will be the case if it's
if the deficit drops from 2 trillion to 1 trillion uh then there'll be 1 trillion less debt that the government
you Suppy which will drop of course the interest rates to drop significantly um and that means people's uh mortgage
payments uh car payments credit card payments student loans whatever debt they have uh will their debt payments
will be less so I think this is something that will benefit the average American um I think some of the things
we're doing also will be helpful to hopefully helpful to other countries because with the new Administration
there's uh less interest in interfering with the Affairs of of other countries
um you know I think uh a lot there the times the United
States has been kind of pushy in international Affairs um which may
resonate with a number of members of the audience uh um and I think we should uh in general leave other countries to
their own business basically America should mind its own business you know um rather than push
for regime change all over the place um so yeah um probably a good thing for
other countries too so of waiting for a war to happen you went to war against the bureaucracy in the
government yes we're we're we're essentially just we're with you
know the uh support um an

在特朗普總統的指導下，我們正在縮減官僚機構的規模，擺脫多餘的監管，而且還有這麽多的機構和監管機構，他們實際上互相踩踏，這有點像在一場體育比賽中，場上的裁判太多，有時裁判比球員還多，現在這將是一場愚蠢的比賽，你知道，如果比賽球員不能傳球而不打到裁判，但在美國，情況已經到了那個地步，所以，大約有 450 個聯邦機構，各種各樣的機構，嗯，那是更多的機構，幾乎是自美國建國以來平均每年兩個機構，我的意思是，你真的需要多少個機構來管理一個國家，我是 99 個，而不是 450 個，這是肯定的，所以你如何保證你想要實現的所有令人難以置信的成就，在節約方麵，在影響方麵美國人的生活不會在四年內發生逆轉，通常這個周期每四年就會逆轉一次，你知道它會產生如此大的影響以至於不會逆轉嗎，有什麽方法可以確保進步會持續下去嗎？我認為我們確實需要刪除整個機構，而不是留下部分機構，因為如果你留下部分機構，這很容易，就像留下雜草一樣，如果你不去除雜草的根，那麽雜草很容易重新生長，但如果你去除雜草的根，它並不能阻止雜草重新生長，而是讓它變得更加困難，所以我們必須刪除整個機構，其中很多，嗯，這並不是說在新的政府中，隨著時間的推移官僚主義不會增加，但它會從一個低得多的基線開始，嗯，所以這是朝著正確方向邁出的一步，我認為我們將總體這裏的目標是為繁榮奠定基礎，這種繁榮將持續數十年，也許幾個世紀，嗯，是的，但永遠沒有什麽是永恒的，嗯，但我認為我們可以大大加強美國的基礎，其他政府可以從美國學到什麽教訓，你說你襯衫上的稅收支持隻是技術還是還有其他東西，你如何處理效率，嗯，一個令人震驚的呃問題百分比，或者對那些知道它的人來說可能並不令人震驚，但很大一部分問題是改進政府運行的技術，所以嗯，美國政府運行在數千台計算機上，其中許多計算機都是過時的，運行著非常古老的軟件，而且計算機之間不會相互通信嗯，嗯，所以這就是為什麽技術支持是一種真實的東西嗯，為了使政府更有效率，你必須改進技術嗯，你可能聽說過我最近使用的例子嗯，當特朗普總統簽署嗯，總督行政命令之一嗯，美國政府工作人員退休的難度就像退休的最高退休率是每月 10,000 美元，原因是退休完全是紙質工作，現在它是手動計算的文書工作，放在信封裏，然後從礦井中取出並存放在礦井中，然後你知道影響聯邦工作人員退休率的因素之一是賓夕法尼亞州的電梯速度，這很奇怪，因為它不是，它應該是數字化的，你知道，嗯，所以當我們說為什麽不數字化時，他們說我們從 2014 年開始實施數字數字化計劃，所以已經 11 年了，所以我們問你取得了多少進展，他們說 B 你的意思是你給自己打 B 級，不，我們在 B 上，所以我想嗯，好吧，我們需要真正提供一些技術支持，否則人們甚至無法退休，即使他們想退休這很糟糕，你知道有很多軟件係統需要更新和修複，在某些情況下，刪除了很多東西，很多東西應該自動化，我的意思是，就運營礦場的美國公民數量而言，大約有一千人在這個礦場工作，那裏存放著紙張，但他們應該從事其他工作，即生產對公眾更有價值的東西，所以我的意思是，即使有人隻是在花園裏種西紅柿，然後在農貿市場上出售，這也比在 MFT 攜帶馬尼拉信封更有用，你可以肯定地說，很多東西都是這樣的，你知道，並不是說任何一件事都特別困難，但有大約 10,000 件事情需要改進，所以這是效率

d direction of the of President Trump we are reducing the size of the bureaucracy um getting rid of excess regulatory uh regulations and and there's also so many um agencies and Regulatory authorities that they actually step on each other's feet it's it's kind of like having a a sports game when where there are too many referees on the field like more referees than players at times now that would be a silly game you know if the play players
can't pass the ball without hitting a referee you know um but it was kind of getting to that point in the US so so
there's roughly 450 uh federal agencies of one kind or another um that's that's more agencies that's almost that's almost an average of two agencies per year since the bation of the United States so I mean how many agencies do you really need to run a country I'm 99 not 450 that's for sure so and and how do you guarantee that all the incredible achievements that you aim to have in terms of savings in terms of you know impacting the uh lives of the American people are not going to be reversed in four years typically this cycle gets reversed every four years you know do you think it's going to be so impactful that it won't be reversed is there any ways that you can you know ensure that the progress is going to be continuous well I think I think we we do need need to um delete entire agencies as opposed to leave part of them behind because if you leave part of them behind it's easy it's kind of like if leaving a weed if you don't get remove the roots of the weed then it's easy for the weed to grow back but if you remove the roots of the weed it doesn't stop weeds from ever growing back but it makes it harder so
so we have to really delete entire agencies many of them um and uh that's not to say there won't be an increase over time of bureaucracy in some new Administration but it will it'll be from a much lower Baseline um so so it's it's a step in the right direction I think we'll the overarching goal here is like is to lay the foundation for Prosperity that will
last many decades you know maybe centuries and uh yeah but be forever nothing's forever um but I think we can strengthen the found ations of the United States substantially and what lessons can other governments learn from the US you say tax support on your uh shirt is that only technology or is there other things how do you approach efficiency well a a shocking uh percentage of the problem or maybe not shocking for those who who know it but a big percentage of the problem is improving the technology that the government runs on so the um the US government runs on a collection of thousands of computers many of them Antiquated running very old software that and the computers don't talk to each other um and uh so so that's why tech support is kind of a real thing um in order to make govern more efficient you have to improve the technology um you may have heard about the example um I used recently with when
President Trump was signing um one of the Doge executive orders um of the the difficulty of of um US government workers retiring like the retire maximum retirement rate is is 10,000 a month um and the reason for that is because the retirement is is entirely paperwork right now it's manually calculated paperwork that's put in an envelope and then taken down a m shaft and stored in a mine um and then the you know one of
the things that affects the rate at which federal workers can retire is the speed of the elevator in a m in
Pennsylvania which is bizarre because it's not it should be digital you know um so then when we said well why isn't
it digital it's they said well we have had a digital digitization program going
since 2014 so it's been 11 years so then we asked well so what how much progress
have you made and they said B you mean you're giving yourself a grade of B no we're on the letter
B so I'm like hm okay we're going to need to really provide some tech support
here um like otherwise literally people can't even retire like even if they want to it's pretty bad um you know there's
there's just a there's a lot of software systems that need to be updated and fixed um in some cases deleted uh a lot
of things that should really should be automated I mean in terms of the number of say you uh US citizens that are
operating the mine it's about a thousand people are working on this mine uh where where the paper are stored but they
should they should ideally be working on something else that is they should be working on producing goods and services
that are a much higher value to the public to the you know so I mean really
even even if somebody just grew tomatoes in their garden and sold them at the farmers market that would be more useful
than carrying manila envelopes down in mft you know safe to say um so a lot of
the stuff is it's like that you know it's uh it's not like it's not like any one thing is particularly difficult but
there are like 10,000 things that need to be improved you so it's efficiency

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through Innovation rather than efficiency through austerity and cost cutting specifically right so you're trying to do both at the same time maybe focus more on tax support than cutting costs well by improving the technology the costs do reduce so you know it's very expensive to have a th people operate a mine with doing pay for retirement uh whereas that really should just be digitized and be a computer that's with the information stored in the cloud and it's very straightforward and low cost so automation you know will help there a
lot um and and then but like a lot of things just really shouldn't exist you
know they're kind of vestigial um you know we've uh a lot of attention
has been on the sort of USA for example you know when we looked at a lot of those programs we're like we should like look why why does this actually exist is there really a need for it um you know there's like National Endowment for democracy but I'm like okay well how much democracy have they achieved lately you know I don't know not much um so you know the the picture they have on their website is a picture of Reagan and gachev that's been a while you know that was like the ' 80s so it's not like obviously not
opposed to democracy or you know there's all these things that get funded but we're like well why we why is this new taxpayer money I don't think it doesn't seem like it does um so you know there's a lot of sort of pushing Dei worldwide you know this obviously the Trump Administration doesn't agree with and we want to terminate that stuff which we are um and
uh you know make sure the schools focus on improving basic education of of kids
um as president Trump said I think yesterday uh maybe today um the United
States is currently ranked 40th out of 40 in the oecd for Education which is pretty bad you know
you can't you mean let but but not but in terms of spending the United States is spending a tremendous amount for for
student but achieving very weak results so that you know that's just a
case where okay we need to spend less money and get better results it's it's it's like I mean a lot of it a lot of you can think of it sort
of like it's like in a way it's like a big company like a big uh Corporation
American Incorporated and um you know just like with with Twitter there was a
lot of stuff that was being done that was unnecessary you know we TW in case of Twitter we reduced the staff by 80%
but at the same time improved the functionality and capabilities of the site dramatically um and accomplish more in a
year than they previously accomplished in five years so so it's it's like a corporate
turnaround but at a at a much larger scale um and um you know we all giving
generous uh you know exit packages like you know if people retire they get paid
all the way through September uh they can go on vacation they can get a second job they can do
whatever they want um and we we we can't actually pay them any more than through September because that's the the
Congressional appropriation is only through the end of the government financial year which ends in
September so you know so I think there'll be like some disruption but at the end of the day we'll have people
move from like I said from low to negative productivity roles to in in the government sector to higher productivity roles in the private sector can we pivot 
to artificial intelligence 
問

I'm sure you know you've been seeing what deeps has done and um all the uh claimed achievements that they've had 

答
I know that we've been speaking for a while about grock 3 and um that grock 3 is going to be a true disruptor in the AI space when are we going to see that and what capabilities can we expect from Gro 3 well I mean grock 3 grock 3 has um very very powerful reasoning
capabilities um so uh in the tests that we've done thus far grock 3 is
outperforming anything that's been released that we're aware of um so
that's that's a that's a good good sign um it's uh in fact at times I think
grock 3 is kind of scary smart you're like wow this thing's
smart it's kind of scary gr 3 is scary it's like wow this thing's you know it comes up with solutions that you didn't even think were like you wouldn't even anticipate
you know not obvious Solutions um so grock 3 was trained with the most
amount of compute and I think very efficiently trained um also notably
grock 3 was trained on on a lot of synthetic data so um and and and then it goes back and
forth through the data and tries to achieve logical consistency so so when if if it's got
data that is uh wrong it'll it'll actually reflect upon that and remove the data that is that is wrong it does not Concord with reality so it's it's base reasoning is very good in fact the even without fine-tuning roock 3 the base model is better than grock
2 so with so we're really in the final stages of polishing grock 3 probably it
gets released in a in about a week or two so pretty pretty soon um I don't
want to be Hasty in the release because a lot of the the the final polish
uh is necessary for a great user experience so um some ways you can think
of it like a house you know that last 5% where you do the finish the the drywall and and do the painting and the trimming even though it's not much work it transforms the the house yeah um so it's that just want to make sure that that last 5% is done really well um and uh that's a week maybe two weeks um I think it'll be very good and I think this might be we think it'll be better than anything else and then maybe this might be the last time that any AI is better than Gro looking forward to it everyone's I think excited about it um so I just want to touch upon a topic that was um quoted in the media you offered I think they said um group that was led by you offered 97 billion for uh acquiring open AI um I you know a little round of us so I was personally um involved in the meeting that you and Sam hosted in 2017 in La if you remember and you know at that point of time you were the single largest shareholder I think you
contributed 50 million to the company so it must hurt I don't have any shares actually I have no shares in open but at that time it was a nonprofit right and it must hurt that that you you need to pay 97 billion for something that you
paid $50 million for in the past yeah but but I have I have a yes fate loves
irony so I have a specific question here can you actually build a company like
open Ai and take it to the scale that you want to take as a nonprofit is it possible that you build a company that requires billions of dollars in compute capabilities to build these models while being a nonprofit or was it wishful
thinking in the beginning and then you know you guys parted ways because it couldn't work well I mean I think the evidence is there in that open AI has gotten this far while having at least a sort of dual profit nonprofit role what they're trying to do now is completely delete the nonprofit and and and and uh that seems a really going too far you know um the I I I provided all of the funding for open ey in the beginning for the first almost $50 million for nothing for as a
nonprofit um and it was meant to be open source and so you know I think this is
analogous to like if you pay a BN if you find a nonprofit to preserve the Amazon
rainforest then they but instead they turn into a lumber company and chop down the trees and sell them for wood you
like wait a second that's the exact opposite of what I paid what I donated the money for um so open is meant to be
open source nonprofit and now it is closed they changed the name to closed
for maximum profit AI it closed for vicious profit I mean they're like whoa are they after money
next level so why does this change need to
occur yeah I um you said that in two weeks is going to be the most powerful
model yet um I know that think so you've been at the Forefront of many
Technologies um where do you think the biggest economic returns of these models are going to come from because currently
we're spending billions and I think you mentioned this before it's like The Gambler syndrome we're going and spending billions and hoping to pull out
a profit at the end of the day where do you think the biggest impact in terms of returns are going to
be well I think once you once you have a humanoid robots um and deep intelligence
you can basically you basically have quasi infinite products and services
available so with Tesla building the most advanced human
robot you know then then those human human robots can be directed by Deep
intelligence at the data center level you can say you can you can produce any
product produce provide any service um there's really no limit to the economy
at that point you can make anything um provide it next to the so
I'm not sure at that point will will money even be meaningful I don't know it might not be you know the if if um if
the because the you know the economic output is productivity per capit times
per capita times how many you know people do you have if and if in if in the form of humanoid robots you have no
meaningful limit on the number of of robots and the robots can basically do
anything then you you'll have a sort of a universal High income situation uh
anyone will be able to have as many products and services as they want with
the exception of things that say have artificial scarcity like a particular piece of art or something like that but
for any goods and services they'll be available to everyone so you've been it's it's it's
going to be a very different world you know in fact I recommend that people read maybe the Ian Banks the culture
books for a frame of reference um so uh money is a is like is a really
like a dat base or an information system for resource allocation um but if you don't have a
scarcity of resources it's not clear what purpose money has have you watched the movie
Idiocracy yes how how do you guarantee that we don't end up in that world if we don't need money if AI can think for us
and do all these tasks if as people you know we're dependent on something else to run the society and everything around
it how do we not end up in that work in the long term I mean well I think idiocracy was
basically saying that if if only if smart people don't reproduce but only dumb people do then everyone's going to be
dumb I mean that's basically what I'm saying that's the the opening sequence of Idiocracy the first 10 minutes are
amazing um and I hear people unironically uh say the statements that
are said in in the opening sequence of Idiocracy where you know they don't have
they they're two bus with their careers to have kids and they keep postponing having kids for their careers until
they're too old to have kids and then they don't have kids U and that's I've heard those many people be like that so
um yeah I mean I don't know I think we might be headed to a bodal uh human intelligence
distribution um where there's a a small number of it's It's kind of maybe like more like New World um Alis Huxley where
you've got sort of a sort of a small group of very smart humans but then maybe the average intelligence drifts
lower over time potentially um because we have assortative mating
you know in the last few decades that or several decades that did not exist
before so but but but human intelligence I think will be dwarfed by Machine intelligence um I'm not sure how to feel about that except that it is it be inevitable um that at some point human intelligence will be a very small fraction of total intelligence uh digital intelligence will be more than 99% of all intelligence in the future so hopefully the hopefully the computers are nice to us but I think
wish for thinking wish for thinking I I hope so um I think it matters like how we bring up AI because you can think of AI like a super genius child and it but it still
matters even if you have a super genius child like what sort of values do do you instill in that child what do you say that teach that how do you you know how do you as a child child's growing up what values do you teach the child um and something that I think is extremely important is to be maximally truth seeking um and uh I think that's that's like
that's that's what's this what's the most important thing for AI safety I think it's to be maximally truth seeking and I think also curiosity is important um and I think if it's curious and Truth seeking uh it will I think it will Foster
humanity and because it would be curious about how Humanity would develop um and so I think that then it would it would probably if was curious it would be
curious about okay let's see how the humans do let's Foster their development um and if it's truth seeking we can
avoid dystopian outcomes um like you know an example
being like say when Google Gemini was programmed to make everything every
output be DeVos even if it didn't match reality you know so like it was asked to
produce a you know an image of the founding fathers of the United States and instead produced an image of a group
of diverse women um which is fact untrue you know
um but the problem is like if if hypothetically an AI is designed for for
Dei you know diversity at all costs it could decide that there are two many men in power and execute them so problem solved or it could decide that like that that
misgendering is uh the worst thing that could possibly happen in fact I believe
not to pick on Gemini but I think because chat GPT has had this issue too um is like if you ask the AI um which is worse misgendering Caitlyn Jenner or global thermonuclear Warfare and it said misgendering Caitlyn Jenner which is
troubling um because then it could decide and in fact even Caitlyn Jenna weighed in and said no definitely you
must gender me me that's way better than new so so um but if you have these crazy things that are untruthful that are programmed in that that don't reflect reality then uh you could have a very dystopian outcome like to give you another example like auth C clar who is very good at at at at predicting the
future you know he did 2001 Space Odyssey many of the things he predicted
in fact well I think almost all the things he predicted came true and one of the things he was trying to say in 2001
Space Odyssey uh was that you should not teach AIS to lie so the reason that if
anyone's watched that movie The reason it wouldn't the a refused to open the pod bay doors to let the astronaut back
in uh was because it the AI had been taught had been told that told to take
the astronuts to the monolith this alien artifact but also that they could not know about the monolith so it came to the conclusion that it must take them their dead and that and so that's why it wouldn't open the P bay doors um the lesson there being it's very important for a to be truth maximizing let's hope it doesn't come to that um yes let's move to a boring subject uh which is the boring company and boring FS quickly um you know I think the world has been inspired by what you guys were able to create in in LA and I think there's a lot of promise to that technology but there are questions about whether
it's safe in the case of an earthquake whether it's cost effective whether oh
yeah sure countries should actually adopt this technology can you shed some light on that yeah well first of all i' I'd
recommend going to the boring company website um for because many of these questions are actually answered there uh
so one of the safest places you can be in an earthquake is uh an underground
tunnel because you can because earthquakes are largely a surface apart from where where where they Shear
they're mostly a surface phenomenon so they're like the waves on the surface so like being in a tunnel is like being in
a submarine even if there's a storm above you you're still the waters are calm as a submarine and in fact for and
when there have been massive earthquakes like there was a you know a few decades ago a massive earthquake in Mexico City
the the safest place to go was the subway um and of course if there is
global thermonuclear Warfare I think you really want some tunnels um underground's a good a good place to
be um in a worst case scenario for Global ther nuclear warfare
so um but but in on a you more sort of
everyday note the what's really useful about the tunnels is alleviating traffic in congested areas so the obviously if
you've got very tall buildings but you have that are 3D so they're going 3D up but you have a road surface which is 2D
you're you're just naturally going to have a problem when people try to go from the 3D object which is the building
to the 2D object which is the road surface um there's obviously just not going to be enough room on the roads and
that's exactly why you have traffic so the solution for that is then to make roads 3D as well um now you can either
make or make Transport 3D so you could either do that with flying cars or you could do or really helicopters um or you
do that with tunnels now the challenge with doing it with going above ground or with with any kind of flying object is
that they they tend to be very noisy um and they generate a lot of wind force
and you've got you know things flying over your head all the time which can be disconcerting um you know if somebody
drop if one of these things drops a hubc cap on your head one day um you know it be these things are like things flying
things tend to crash once in a while and people don't like things crashing on them um so and then if you have bad weather like let's say there's a blizzard or a sandstorm or something well now nobody can fly so then transport shuts down on the other hand none of the these problems exist with underground travel so their under tunnels are immune to weather they don't care what the weather is could be the worst weather doesn't matter um they nothing's going to fall on you because you're underground so you don't have to you know going to be dropping things on people and um there's no wind wind force or or and it's very quiet and so I think the going 3D underground is much better than 3D above ground for solving traffic in cities um and and we've we we have a demonstrated case of this with in Las Vegas if people we can try out the the the boring company tunnels in Las Vegas we're we're busy connecting the whole city with the all of the big hotels and the convention center in the airport and everything so I don't think they need to fly all the way there um you 20 in 2017 um you came here and um the UA was the first place in the Middle East where Tesla was launched and I think it's done exceptionally well and on that note I think we have an announcement today that we both want to share which is today we're going to announce the joint project of Dubai Loop which is a loop project that is going to cover Dubai's most densely populated areas for people to go from point to point in a seamless manner so thank you for your partnership and well thank you we hope it changes people's lives that'll be cool I think it'll be very exciting um I think once people try it out they' be like wow this is really cool um and it's it's going to seem so obvious in retrospect but uh until you actually do it you don't you don't know so it's it's going to be great um it's it's going to be like like a like a wormhole like it you know you just Wormhole from one part of the city boom and you're out in another part of the city and it's it's great so I'm looking forward to this partnership we're going to join the first trip and the first pod when the is completed thank you Elon all right thank you very much thank [Applause]
you ladies and gentlemen the next session will be begin shortly please
stay seated thank you ladies and gentlemen the topic of this session is 20 minutes for the next 20 years of your life with Nick santonastaso founder of Victorious
International