There's a lot of misconceptions powered by various people in the west who are very much against China, particularly in
North America, but also there's a few in Britain. Meet Judy McKay. Born in the UK, she moved to Hong Kong 60 years ago. She
became a fierce anti-tobacco activist and fought so successfully that the industry saw this tiny woman as one of
the three most dangerous people in the world. Judy shares what outsiders get wrong about Hong Kong? Whether Hong Kong
is becoming just another Chinese city and Hong Kong versus Singapore, which one is winning? I'm Max Chernov, your
insider to expert life. Hangla. So you think that Hong Kong will still be
welcoming place for foreigners, for experts coming here or it's becoming more and more like another Chinese city?
Eventually it will be more like another Shenzhen but with just a with a long I think both. I think both. Coming here
as a tourist is so safe you wouldn't believe it. In Hong Kong we have a population of 8 million people and we
have 30 murders a year. Now you'd get that overnight in some western cities.
30 murders a night or a week. I mean we have 30 murders a year and they're not of visitors are expected. They're
between the try gangs themselves. This is this is what happens. I can go to any car park in Hong Kong at midnight on my
own with my car and pick it up. I never even think of feeling frightened. I
certainly wouldn't do that in many cities in the West. Be on my own and go up and pick up a car at midnight on my
own in an isolated car park. We have a very sound education system here with
free education for whenever as well as many private and international schools. We have the equivalent of the National
Health Service here. People do pay about £10 to go for a visit. And we're facing
the same problems as the NHS, you know, more people using it, an aging population and so on. 50% of all Hong
Kong is is a country park. People think of Hong Kong as the the concrete jungle
of the central part of it, but actually there's massive numbers of places and
outlying islands to hike and to barbecue and to, you know, take your dogs for
walks and things like that. And we've got a lot of amenities like our pandas, like our Buddha, like going up the peak,
but it's incredibly safe for tourists here. A bit like Singapore. Singapore, I think, is a safe place for tourists as
well. So, I think that Hong Kong is definitely like that. And yet, there's all these misconceptions. When we go
back to Britain, we people say to us, "Are you safe?" And I mean, I almost laugh. I said, "Am I safe? I'm safer in
Hong Kong than I'm here in London." For sure. That's for sure. Are you safe? Are you going back? You know what about this
brutal communist dictatorship that's ruling you? There's a lot of misconceptions powered by various people
in the west, a small number of people in the west who um you know are very much against China, particularly in North
America, but also there's a few in Britain, including some people who were here in the civil service and as
governor, who really are very very anti-China and I think spread a lot of misinformation about us. As I said, I
think I'm safer here than almost anywhere in the world. And tourists are so welcome here. And of course, the Hong
Kong government and the people want tourists to come because it's part of the livelihood.
Yeah, tourists for sure. But what about like people who want to move like from America, come to work? Yeah. Come to do
business. Would it be still a place for this? Yes, I can certainly answer that question. I think that people nothing to
do with 1997. I think gradually there is a change from people coming for lifelong
into people who are coming on shorter term contracts coming for even 3 years or 10 years people come here they make
money they advance themselves in their business but they go back this is particularly true of Americans not very
America many Americans stay on here but they never have they've tended to go back to their country but for certainly
somebody coming from Britain I think it is gradually becoming more Chinese as a city and that's only expected. It was
more British under the British. It's more Chinese under the Chinese. I mean, who would expect anything different? But
I think there is definitely from a business point of view, there's an incredible future for people coming here
still. I mean, particularly as we're linked with China, which of course is just the growing economy in the world.
So, I think and especially as we are becoming integrated, I think there's a massive future for people coming here.
Well, not just in business, but coming here and working in, you know, in all sorts of things, working in the health
field and things like that. I think um whether they stay on into retirement, I
think probably not so much nowadays, but I think um Hong Kong will certainly see
us out. We have no plans to move. We go back to Scotland for 3 months every summer, and that is just a perfect
divide. you know, we see our family, we see our friends, and yet uh my work persona is still in Hong Kong. It's not
in Scotland. Singapore and Hong Kong were always like this two competitors in the region.
Yeah. And some people say Hong Kong start to lose positions after the China
uh took over on a global scale. So, it's more like now it's not the gate for Westerners to China anymore. Uh but some
people say it's another will be another Chinese city. What do you think? uh if you you see it for like the last almost
60 years the competition between like these two incredibly successful cities what's your thoughts on it what's your
takes on them certainly after 1997 Singapore was able to pick up quite a lot of people who
were repositioning their businesses out of Hong Kong because they were uncertain
what the future would be like being under ultimately a Chinese jurisdiction I think that happened but I think what
is now happening is that this is being rebalanced by the fact that we are having in Hong Kong, we're having the
advantage of being part of China and being part of the Belt and Road Initiative, part of the greater Bay
Area. So, I think that Hong Kong's strength in terms of coming up to be
equal to Singapore and it's not hostile. I don't feel it's hostile at all. I feel it's just a a pretty good friendly
rivalry between the two. And Singapore is rather more to use the word sterile
and chaotic are far too far down the road for what I'm trying to describe. I mean Singapore is more orderly. Hong
Kong still has a business of being a little bit less orderly and a bit more freewheeling than Singapore in a number
of ways. So there are differences between them, but I think both of them are going to do well. I think actually
and I think the rivalry is no bad thing. I think uh Hong Kong is benefiting heavily from being a part now of this
huge the greater bay area which is like we googled yesterday with my friend
it's like 80 million people here in the region guanjo Macau Hong 80 million people it's like Germany
yes yeah it's crazy and and Singapore is a little bit like isolated it's only Malaysia here
yes uh so there is a Johor Baru which they have like economic ties but still Hong
Kong is the part of something much bigger I feel like physically. Yes. So I think it does sort of checks
and balances as we go along. But many people here they visit Singapore that
you know it's a it's a safe place to go. It's a nice place to go. Um so I don't think there's any hostility or any
antagonism. There's a bit of rivalry and as I said this balances in different times in different ways. many like
wealthy people left Hong Kong after COVID to Singapore and relocated their
businesses or home offices to Singapore. But now also I talked to some people yesterday they say okay now it's a
opposite trend. So people were like afraid they were leaving after 1997 after co but now they're kind of moving
back returning to Hong Kong. It was the same with 1997. Some people, a lot of people left to Canada to get
their children born there and then they've sort of come back. Yeah. But um in 2019
we quite a few young people from Hong Kong went to Britain under a special
arrangement and I think it's possibly unlikely that they will come back. I mean Hong Kong I think is still a
remarkably free society. Interestingly enough, I've just written an article published in the China Daily on human
rights. That that that's quite an achievement to do that. But when I was
researching it, I went on to the United Nations page on this human rights United Nations department and it interestingly
enough it says the biggest human rights violation in the world is poverty. Now
that comes as a great surprise to people in the west. Well, poverty. Yeah. Okay.
They see human rights as being able to criticize your government. Whereas in fact, if you were to take the UN
criteria of lifting people out of poverty, China has lifted 80 million people out of poverty. And so sometimes
when I'm in the West, just controversially when people say, "Oh, there's no human rights in China." I'll
say, "Actually, if you take the UN definition, China's done more than any country in the world on human rights
because it's lifted people out of poverty." and they just don't see it like that. There are restrictions in
Hong Kong on what you can say. There is a red line that you cannot call for independence for Hong Kong. And nobody
in their right mind would do so anyhow. It's never going to happen. It was one of the five demands of the protesters in
2019. Never ever is ever is Hong Kong going to be independent. It is part of
China and it will remain so. And China, you know, the British took it for 150
odd years. China's got it back. There is no way that China is going to let it go. And it's not from the students here. It
doesn't resonate. It didn't resonate in 2019. If you ask students in China, they
say, "No, of course it's ours. We don't want to give it up." There was no crossborder fertilization of a protest
movement in China as many hoped it might be. Many of the protesters hoped it might be. It didn't resonate at all in
China that. So in Hong Kong, you cannot publicly call for an independence for
Hong Kong. And you certainly can't do what many did in 2019, and that's cooperate internationally and to go to
countries like the US or Britain and ask for their support in making Hong Kong independent. That you simply cannot do.
So I think we're searching with legislation here that is our security legislation. hardly different from most
of the rest of the world I have to say is modeled on the British one for example. I think many people are just
trying to find their way. And I think for journalists and for teachers, they're still trying to find, you know,
what level is it that we can be sort of critical, you know, in terms of teaching students about history, you know, just
the nuances of of politics with that. I think there are some sensitivities, but I think Hong Kong is working it out. I'm
very confident that Hong Kong will be okay. We have a very good chief executive at the moment, John Mi. I
think we're on track to bounce back as we bounced back for most things before. And not to say there's not problems. We
have problems of, for example, care of the elderly. We have problems of people who are poor and housing. Of course, we
have problems like everywhere else in the world. And I'm not dismissing those problems. I'm not saying we have problems putting them aside. No, we have
problems and we have to deal with them. And we have to deal with them with, you know, better housing and more equality.
But I think the days of Hong Kong being run by the Hong Kong and Shanghai Bank and the big Hongs, the big property
owners for example, I think those are going I think those I think the very big property owners are not as powerful as
they were once in Hong Kong. And again, that ties in with China's philosophy. They're trying to do the same in China
with not allowing people like Jakmar and the big oligarch. They don't want
Russian oligarchs in China and they don't want Russian oligarchs the equivalent of Russian oligarchs in Hong
Kong. They want a more equal society. So I think that is also happening here and that's really to the good as well.
What I think the biggest um changes that happened in Hong Kong in terms of how in
society I think they behave with more confidence. I also think they expect
more. They the young people here today expect the government to do more. Um, they expect the streets to be swept.
They expect the education system and mass transit, which is absolutely
marvelous. We've got the most amazing mass transit system in the world. It breaks down one morning and you'd think
Hong Kong had come to an end all the complaints there are about it. Um, that
I think there there is much less tolerance in a sense almost in a more western way. There's much less tolerance
of sort of small glitches. It's not a major problem. If our mass transit, oh,
I don't even mean the whole mass transit. I mean just one line breaks down for a few minutes or is delayed.
There's a lot more complaint. There's a lot more expectation that um you know they have to be held to account. I think
these elements are now sort of creeping in. Um and I think it's certainly a much more sophisticated society than it was
then. Hey, I've launched this Telegram channel where I'll be sharing insights from my guests, travel tips around Asia,
and also my thoughts about YouTube, marketing, business, and even life. It will be cozy, personal, and free of
charge. So, join me. Just scan this QR code on the screen or click the link in description, and I'll see you there.
Are you PR permanent resident in Hong Kong? Uh, the system here is that if you're here for 7 years, you can become a
permanent resident. and our two boys were born in Hong Kong. So they're a little family of permanent residents. So
we have British passport still, but we have a Hong Kong ID card, a permanent ID card. And China has now given us 5-year
visas. Those of us who are permanent got permanent ID cards, they've given us for
almost no money at all, very little, uh we now have 5-year visas. China has
tried after 1997 very hard to make the expatriots um comfortable and welcome here um in
many many ways. I mean we still have Cornwall Street. Um we still have a very
Chinese solution right in the middle of Central. We had a huge statue of Queen Victoria. Now that has been moved to a
park much further away from the central. They haven't destroyed it. They haven't
exported it. They haven't they've left it in Hong Kong, but it's not right in the central anymore. I think that's just
a a wonderful solution. And they China was quite uncertain as to whether uh the
expatriate community in Hong Kong would stay on to start with. Would they leave? Would they stay? And in fact, um I was
asked by the wife of the prime minister, Alip Pon, his wife Julen. Um she asked
me what she really wanted to know what would be the situation. This is way
before 1997. This is in the 80s and early 90s. We had several discussions on
this. What was the attitude of the people the British in particular staying in Hong Kong. So I said well I think the
attitude is that the time has come. You know this is part of China. The time has come. Uh it's right that it goes back to
China. Most of us are staying on. it's really not a problem. And I think uh I
think in my own small way I was able to sort of reassure the Chinese government that actually there wouldn't be a mass
exodus of people who were running the place. There wouldn't be a mass exodus even from the civil service. They uh the
civil service were not allowed to stay on as heads of a department but they could stay on as either subheads or as
advisers. And now that's gradually moved through in the last several decades
since the handover. There are um there's still a few pe few Western people in the
civil service but really very few. We had an incredibly peaceful handover. Um
and we prepared well for it well in advance for 20 years beforehand and then
after the handover itself. So probably if you look back at the British Empire, we probably had about the best of all
handovers actually. um in terms of peacefulness and security. It was almost
a non-event. The place was full of journalists, you know, and we had this joke in Hong Kong. They were all in St.
John's Cathedral on their knees playing, let there be blood on the streets. Let there be blood. So they could write
something about this handover and how dramatic it was and they had nothing to
report on. It was all peaceful. And so it has continued. Yeah, I mean I think as I said they they've made sure
we've got permanent ID cards are in place. All the land leases are automatically renewed. They've just
announced China they're automatically renewing all the land leases from 19 uh
after 50 years um 1947 automatically being renewed. I think China's done a
lot to reassure the people of Hong Kong that actually the the basic institutions
and the basic way of life is in place for the long term. And China now I think
sees 1947 as almost a non-event. And what is happening is that there are more
and more people from the mainland coming to Hong Kong. You hear more and more Mandarin being spoken on the street. Um,
I was meeting somebody at the airport the other day on the, you know, the side of the barrier, which is where you meet
and greet people, the Hong Kong people, and everybody around me was speaking Mandarin. So, they were greeting people
coming into Hong Kong. So, everything like our mass transit railway now is English, Cantonese, and Mandarin. That's
all been so you see more Mandarin, you hear more Mandarin. There's more m we're much more integrating, slowly
integrating with Shenzhen slowly across border. people go across for dinner now.
Um, in fact, that's a bit of a problem for the hotels and restaurants in Hong Kong because you can just pop across the
border, have dinner, and it's cheaper than actually having it in Hong Kong. And so, we're part now of the greater
Bay Area. And China has also with this present problems with America and the tariffs,
China has said categorically that we will help Hong Kong whatever whatever it takes, we will help Hong Kong. um see
this through. Who knows where it's going to go? All this tariff business and particularly with China who's facing
tariffs of 240% on some goods. We don't know where that will go. But China has
said very categorically, don't worry Hong Kong, we will whatever whatever how this works out, we will help you. So, I
think China has done a lot to make sure that um you know that that they're looking after Hong Kong and they're
helping support our stock exchange and the People's Liberation Army are stationed here, but I've virtually never
seen one of them. Um the British troops when they were here, you saw them in central, you saw them going to the bars
and the restaurants and things. Never. You never see the Chinese, the PLA going to bars in one chai, for example. Never.
Uh I think in fact we feel rather sorry for them. They're not with their families. They're here quite isolated in
their barracks. Um they don't really come into town. They don't have the money to do so actually from their
salaries, you know, to spend a lot of money here. And sometimes they have an open day where they will open up if a
ship comes into harbor, they'll have an open day and people can go onto it and children go and you know look at the
ships or things like that. And you know, as I said, I think we feel a bit sort of sorry for them that they're so isolated.
Um, and they don't they don't really come out and integrate with the population. So the population never sees
soldiers in the street ever. I mean, it just doesn't happen here. So I personally think um, you know, China's
done quite well um, in terms of taking over and running Hong Kong. In fact,
staying on, I feel it's my duty almost as a British expatriate who was here as a colonist to start with. Um, I feel
it's my duty to stay on and just help in any way and try and make sure that it works as best as it possibly can do. I
regard that as not being a failure or anti-British in any way, shape or form.
And of course, the government has problems. China has problem. Every country in the world, the government has problems. um especially today it would
seem the western countries as well. I mean no no government is without its its
faults but actually I think the government here does really pretty well
in terms of creating a safe society and Asia as you know I mean Asia compared
with the rest of the world is an incredibly safe place. We haven't really had a war in Asia since the second world
war. I mean that's the last 60 years. We had I suppose the Korean war. We've had internal wars, Korean war. We've had
dissident and uprising like in Myanmar. We had a border skirmish between Vietnam
and China in 1989. But you know, I'm having to think and search my memory to think what when did
we last have a war? It's a very safe area of the world. It's probably the safest area in the world you can think
of today. Asia in general and you know Hong Kong is part of that. I spent two days in in China mainly in
China yesterday and it's interesting uh to see that probably Chinese are very
different also south and north there are like few countries inside one country but also I guess Hong Kongers are also
like proud Hong Kongers especially who are originally from here. What do you think would be the difference between like the Hong Konger and mainland
Chinese? Well, at one stage they would have been really different, but um uh I
mean you could 30 years ago you could have recognized a mainlander here just
by the way they were dressing. You can't do that anymore at all. Um what was the way like Hong Kong was more
well they were smarter and they had more money whereas the people from the mainland were really poor. They had no
money at all. And I think Hong Kong is used to feel a bit sort of superior to people from the mainland in many ways.
But I think that has changed now. And I think the mainland people are doing so well. My goodness me, all these cars. I
think the mainland traffic. I think the mainland people are doing so well. I sometimes can't tell seeing somebody in
a street until I hear them speak whether they're from the mainland. Here we go. Whether they're from the mainland or if
they're Hong Kong people. Um I think Hong Kong people do have an identity. I think at the moment it's quite southern
Chinese. Um so I think the the major group of them and in fact the whole
global diaspora of Chinese is mostly Cantonese. If you look at the Chinese restaurants around the world for
example, they're virtually all all from the southern part of China. Oh, really?
Yes. Yes. You you don't get many Mandarin people going and opening a restaurant in New York or something.
That's much less common. It's the Cantonese who have created this like more entrepreneurial
entrepreneurial. Yes. Perhaps because they've left their homeland. They've many have come to Hong Kong first and
then gone overseas. They are a bit more temporary. Anyhow, they say the difference between the north and
southern Chinese is like in Europe. You've got the northerners who are if anything rather taller. They're rather
quieter. They're like the Scandinavians. Whereas the southern Europeans are more
like the Italians. They're more expressive. They're more um they're shorter. They're noisier. If you listen
to the volume speaking, the northerners speak much more quietly than southerners
everywhere in the world. Um and the Cantonese do speak quite loudly and their language is more almost Germanic.
It's more staccato. This the um northern language is much softer. For example,
the word for friend in Cantonese is pao. Pao. That's quite definite. Whereas in
Mandarin it's po that's or apple is pingua or pingua
almost the same. Uh and if I am speaking Mandarin and I don't know a word I just try it in Cantonese and uh soften it
soften it a bit and sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't. For example the word for five
is in Cantonese but it's woo in Mandarin. So sometimes it's completely
different. Different. Yeah. So it can vary quite a lot. Hey guys, just a quick announcement.
Don't skip. I'll be running a 3-day workshop called Fast Track to Views and Profits on YouTube. If you ever wanted
to start your own channel, this is the best way to do it. You will learn how to choose the most profitable niche and how
to beat the YouTube algorithm. You're going to love it. I promise. Link in description. So sign up if it's for you.
And now back to the video. Are there many people who actually stayed through this almost 60 years that you're here or
many I guess many people left many friends left or have someone who stayed actually? Yeah, most expatates do leave and that's
economic. uh many of the when they came they were given accommodation by the government in particular huge group of
people but also people like Cafe Pacific or the bank in those days provided
accommodation provided rent and the only way you can stay on in Hong Kong after you retire um after my husband retired
is to uh own your own place to try and pay today's rental for a flat even a
small flat in Hong Kong is is high very high So from a very practical point of
view, not that many people stay on. And I think I would say almost everybody we know who stayed on um managed to get
their own place often very early like we did when you could pick up a place for for peanuts cuz we bought our house in
1971 and they say you should buy when there's blood on the streets and that's pretty much what we did. It was a cultural
revolution. The red guards and the bombs were still here. So many people who did as we did. We are the people who have
been able to stay on. I think many more people would have liked to. But if you don't own your own place here, you
can't. Yeah. How many times it gets more expensive through the years? 100 100 times something like that.
Well, it's uh it's it's I think Hong Kong I think Singapore and Hong Kong are
both pretty expensive places, but I think Hong Kong is the most one of the most expensive places in the world. So,
we're just again very fortunate that we made that decision so many years ago and we made it we were renting a flat in
town and the landlord put up the rent by $100 Hong Kong dollars a month for the
next three years and hundred Hong Kong dollars is what about £10 US something
like that peanuts by today's standard but I remember saying to my husband $100
a month more for the next three years gosh that's a bit much. We better buy a house. So, we came, we saw this one,
bought it that same day, that afternoon. A very big impulse decision. Um, which
has served us well, the best thing we ever did financially, but also it's an oasis because we're surrounded by trees
and bushes and green. It's just an oasis for when I go out and fight with the industry. Um, and people love coming out
to us because many of our friends do live in apartments. So to come out and be able to sit in the garden and just uh
be surrounded by, you know, the peace and the quiet and the birds. You probably are picking it up on your
recording with the birds all around us. It's just lovely. We're really lucky. Yeah, it's beautiful and lovely. When
you bought it, it was a bit maybe far away from the city center, but now it's like just 20 minutes drive
from the from the But people thought we were mad buying a place when there was still all the unrest. They thought it was so far out.
We're at the ninth milestone and it was very remote in those days. We had to sink a well. We had no water supply. The
electricity went off quite frequently. Would people ever come out as far out as this and see us? Um, we had difficulty
finding a Chinese armor to come and out and work here because it was so far out.
And in fact, we became the first Westerners in Hong Kong to employ a Filipino maid. Um because I went down to
the Philippines and interviewed myself and interviewed about eight of them at heart rendering. They all wanted to
come. They all had, you know, parents who were sick or brothers they wanted to
um educate much the same as today in fact, but they're all desperate to come. But and we have the same family today.
We're in our fifth generation of the same Filipino family. So we must be doing something right. Well, the fifth
generation of that same family we employed in 1972 and certainly in the
1970s when there were all many many immigrants coming in illegally into Hong
Kong following the cultural revolution there the 60s and 70s our garden seemed
to be a conduit. they would come up from cycle over the hill and uh if they made
it south of boundary street they were allowed to stay in Hong Kong a boundary street in Koon so they came here and
they all were trying to get into Koon and south of Boundary Street cuz if they were picked up by the police then they
were still allowed to stay so they're all coming in and you know the first couple of times we were told we had to
film the police but actually by the time the police got to us they were long gone so we just
pointed In the end, that's that's a way to koo that way. Um, and they were a
very ragged, often barefoot in open sort of pimp souls, very ragged, desperate,
frightened group of people, the illegal immigrants. We had a rush of them in the
60s and 70s following the cultural revolution and then the famine in China. And you know, that's they were the
people who built up Hong Kong. So I'm not sure if any of them would ever remember coming through our garden but
that's where and you know they were never threatening never we never worried that they would harm us in any way. They
were always astonished to find a westerner as you can imagine if they saw us and very frightened but um you know
they were the people who've led to Hong Kong being what it is today. Yeah. So how was Hong Kong back then? It
was like very international or like very Chinese or how was it? What was the
vibe? Well, I arrived right in the middle of the cultural revolution, and people don't appreciate that Hong Kong
was very much affected. We had the red guards here on the street. We had bombs. We had all this communist schools and
banks barricaded. We had big character posters saying, "Imperialists, go home."
It was at a time when people were very uncertain whether the Hong Kong police would be able to hold Hong Kong or not
because the People's Liberation Army came right down to the border and if they had invaded I think Hong Kong would
have fallen but China decided as it always decides in the fullness of time
they would get back Hong Kong in a more peaceful era which is what happened. Um, but there was a great uncertainty at
that time and certainly a feeling of danger. If you went out onto the street and saw a cardboard box, for example, on
the street, you absolutely called the police, you know, went nowhere near it because it might be a bomb. So, I
certainly arrived at a rather dramatic time in Hong Kong. I guess it's quite exciting and
terrifying at the same at the same time. Yes. But it was a sleepy town compared with today. That's for sure. I mean,
it's become bigger. It's become much more international. It's weathered a lot
of storms. It weathered the cultural revolution. It weathered um many really
bad typhoons. It weathered economic collapses, the Asian collapse. Um it
weathered uh further disturbances in 2019. It's weathered COVID. So I think
Hong Kong is a survivor. It's a survivor city for sure. What would be the way um
to make friends with uh Hong Kongers? Is it different versus making friends in
England? No, it's through through work, through schools, through neighbors. I think it's
very similar really. What's the way I We've had the same neighbors in Blue Gardens since we moved there and we're
on their fifth generation now actually from the great-grandfather, grandfather,
father, the the boy, and now they've got a baby. Yeah. Five generations of people next door. Again, it's it's a very
courteous relationship. Um, we sometime we go in and visit them at Chinese New Year. We go in and see old grandma who's
now heading for 100, if not 100. Nobody's quite sure. Um, and uh, you
know, we go and pay our respects to her and pay their respects to us. And so, it's very harmonious. I think that's the
one thing that um is really important to Asia in fact but certainly Hong Kong
China in particular it's they've been through so much turmoil in the last century China so much turmoil being
occupied by Japan and then you know having the cultural revolution having major famines I think there is a
appreciation here of stability which is you don't get as much in western
countries if you were to ask somebody in I don't know in rural Scotland you know
how important to you is a stable society they would be surprised at that question
well you know like what do you mean kind of thing but I think it's very important here that the that uh there is a Chinese
curse in fact that says may you live in interesting times because interesting times are very
destabilizing yeah and very uncertain so may you live in interesting times is a curse you put on
people not not a a challenge or as may be perceived in western countries.
Yeah. So I guess it's it's a different definition of freedom I guess in the west in the east. I'm generalizing but
well freedom from famine. People forget that. they forget how recent you know it's it's within people's lifetime
memory that there was a major following the cultural revolution there was a
major major famine in China where you know millions of people died and this is embedded in people's psyche you can't
expect it to be otherwise just as many people in the west that people are still traumatized in America by the Vietnam
war and it wasn't even in their country it was in somebody else's country but you've still got people who are
traumatized by and remember it or lost people with it. These things don't disappear for many,
many generations. Recently, I invested in whiskey casks
and if you ever thought about investing, let me share with you my experience. And who knows, maybe soon we will have our
casks sitting together somewhere in Scotland. According to a global wealth and trends report, experts rank whiskey
as one of the best alternative investments. Unlike stocks and crypto, whiskey investments are more stable and
they hold their value even in tough times. Thanks for their strong demand from wealthy buyers. I did my
investments through whiskey casks club and the founder Alexander actually interview him recently and before the
interview we actually had a video call where he showed me my own whiskey casks sitting in Scotland at the warehouse.
That was pretty cool. As whiskey ages, it typically increase its value and the
expected annual returns are normally from 12 to 18% annually. Of course,
returns are not guaranteed, but these figures are based on a past performance. And yes, all casks are fully insured and
securely stored in bonded warehouses. So, if you're interested in adding whiskey investments into your investment
portfolio, follow the link in description and mention my name, Max Chou, for a special friends and family
discount from Alexander and Whiskey Club. But be sure to do your research before making decisions. It's not
financial advice. I'm just sharing my experience. Take care. And now, back to the video. What's the best thing for you about
living in Hong Kong? It's been my home now since 198 uh since 1967.
I think I really appreciate the job that I do. I think I've been extraordinarily
lucky just being the right person in the right place at the right time. And I
think being female has helped at all. I mean, for example, the Minister of Health in Mongolia said to me, I was the
first non-Russian expert they ever had in 1990. In fact, I arrived in Mongolia
the very day the Russians were leaving after having ruled Mongolia for about 80 years. And he said, "We weren't quite
sure what it would be like having a nonRussian adviser coming in." And when
we found you were female, we felt we were happy about that. I think they felt I would be more perhaps gentler, more
understanding in some way. I think being British helped because it would be unlikely for example that China would
invite a Malaysian doctor from Malaysia to go and advise them on national policy. I think the fact I that people
felt I was part of Asia. I'd made a big effort to learn the language. I had a
solid medical degree behind me but I was not of any one nationality, one Asian
nationality. So I think that helped. I think not being in my 20s and 30s helped
because Asian governments in general respect age. Yeah. And they tend to listen more to people who have got
experience behind them. And um I think I just was was at the right place. I don't
think it's a job that would be possible now. For example, China. China's doing it themselves. They're passing the laws
at raising the tax. Every country in Asia is now on wheels. Every country in
Asia has ratified the WHO framework convention on Tobacco Control. They've
picked it up. They're up and running with it and they don't really need an advisor like me now. Whereas in 1980, I
was helping them draft laws. I was helping them stand up to the transnational tobacco companies. Um, for
example, the minister of Cambodia said to me, um, I've got a big problem with tobacco because the head of Philip
Morris said he's coming in two weeks to meet with me and I will actually be out of the country. I said, that's fine. And
he said, no, but he said, I won't be here to meet him. I said, you don't have to meet him. You don't have to meet him at all. You know, you're the Minister of
Health in Cambodia. You can choose who you want to meet with. And I said, in fact, it's probably not a good idea to
meet at all with the tobacco industry. So I think I helped empower a lot of countries in the very early days of
standing up to the tobacco companies, but equally I helped them a lot with designing legislation, designing tax
policies and things like that. So these are all part of the course now. They're all up and running. They're all happening. So I think it was just that
moment in time and I'm very appreciative of that. I was very lucky and I've just
had such an interesting life being able to work principally with governments and including for example I've been three
times to North Korea. Not that many people have done that. In China I've been five times to the party school. Now
the party school is the ideological think tank of the communist party in China. It's places where Kissinger goes
for example. So to be invited five times to work with them is a tremendous privilege and help them with a document
they were drafting on tobacco and it coming into force. Visiting the great war when there was not a person on it.
Um going to countries and working with the governments instead of going as a tourist and just seeing the sites and so
on but working you know with the people in that country has just been the most
amazingly opening in terms of just seeing how people live. quite different
from just going on a visit to Malaysia for a week and yeah or to India to see
the Taj Maha but just actually just living and working for decades with these people. I mean it's not that it
was just a one-off if you know countries like Singapore for example I must have visited oh one two dozen times working
with the governments there. At some point you are considered as one of the most dangerous people for tobacco
industry. I guess it takes a lot of courage on your side. How was it? And were you get like threatened by them?
And like what did you feel? Cuz I guess like many people would just quit at some point because of the pressure cuz you
basically you're one person against like super powerful corporations. I think at the very beginning it was
quite daunting um just being on my own and certainly I was quite vulnerable. um
the tobacco industry in 1989 said I was one of the three most dangerous people in the world and I have come to wear
that as a badge of pride actually and then more recently just a few couple of years ago they said there were eight
people who were you know the most dangerous people I was still on the eight so I was pleased to see that I
hadn't I hadn't sort of gone down a bit off the top list and the tobacco industry has never learned that the more
trouble I have with them the stronger It makes me I get more and more determined when um I I see them. But certainly they
have called me every name under the sun you can think of. They've said I'm like Hitler. I'm like a nanny. I'm like an
interfering busy body. They caused me so many names. I've twice been threatened with being taken to court for lawsuits
by them. Nothing came of it. So in other words, it was just a threat and they
never followed it through. So, it was a threat and it was also however a message once I was on live radio when they
threatened to threaten me on live radio on RTHK with this. They were also letting the audience know she's not
accurate with what she's saying, which in fact I was. And RTHK the following day checked up. They said actually what
Dr. Mai said was accurate. And so, but it's trying to sort of undermine my authority as well as being threatening.
One, I have to say one reason that we sent our two sons back to Scotland to continue their schooling was that I was
quite concerned about their safety. Um, they had to go up what was then a pretty lonely road up to catch a school bus.
Um, that was not really good news. Um, but to give it a sense of how important
it was, the Secretary for Security, Jeffrey Barnes, the late Jeffrey Barnes
in Hong Kong, he at one stage insisted that I had 24-hour police protection
because he said that, you know what, all these things that are happening, lielist to say it's the tobacco industry, some
of them, we have no proof. But he said, I we want you to have 24-hour protection. The government does. And I
said, "Look, I just don't want to live 24 hours with the policeman." And so he said, "Okay, I'll just let it be known
that if anything happens to you, we'll have a government official government inquiry." And so I felt more secure
after that. And of course, I feel secure now because I'm not a suicidal type at
all. You know, if if um I was found at the bottom of Hong Kong Harbor, everybody would think it was a tobacco
industry until proved otherwise. So I don't feel so concerned now. But certainly in the early days when I was
on my own being called all these names I've been likened even more recently to a jihadist. Um it's changed now from
being Hitler to a jihadist. But they've tried to undermine my credibility.
That's what they've tried to do all along and to also make it uncomfortable for me. But it tends to make me
stronger. I don't know. Maybe it's my Yorkshire upbringing, my Yorkshire jeans. I've got some Danish Viking jeans
as well. So maybe it's a combination of those two give me strength. You are uh 81.
Yes. 81. Yes, I'm 81. How does it feel to be 81? Well, I still feel as if I was the other
way around. 18. I think inside myself, I still feel very much the same. I realize
I'm not. Of course, I'm I'm not deluded. Um but I think I feel much the same as I
did. I feel more experienced now. And certainly in terms of tobacco control
and understanding the world and you know life and friends of course I mean I've
had a lifetime of you know just wonderful experiences in that regard but
um I'm I no I don't feel very much different from how I did then and I've often said to people I'd be working till
I'm 100. So that's what I plan to do. So the tobacco industry need not pop the champagne glasses yet. I'm certainly not
retiring. Not at all. Yeah. What's the meaning of life for you?
I think to be happy. I think there's so many things in the world that we have no control over. Some of the things that
are going on in the world today in the Middle East and wars in Europe and so on, we can do only so much ourselves. We
can maybe not buy something that comes from a particular country, but in fact, remarkably little. But I think if we
ourselves are happy, then we spread that to people. We make other people happy.
Um, and I suppose I really value joy in life. I wake up every morning thinking
grateful. I feel grateful and I feel positive about life. I'm just a cup half
full person. And I think that if I can make people happy and make people smile, I think if I do an interview and don't
make people laugh, I think that's a failure. If I give a talk at a conference, even on tobacco, and I don't
somehow make the audience laugh with me, I think that's that's a failure, too. So
I think I value happiness. Um and from an individual point of view, you know, what more can we do than to really value
joy in life and and appreciate it? And that's a very core value to me.
