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“北美清教徒屠殺了幾千萬印地安人”?

(2007-07-01 07:22:03) 下一個
事實證明,人相信他們願意相信的。

曆史記錄在這裏:
來源: liangmin6  回答: “北美清教徒屠殺了幾千萬印地安人”?

According to some history books, there were 50-100 million (see ref 1) (some says 25m to 50m) American Indians around 1500. There were 2000 distinct cultures back then. Some of the indians died from the deadly disease brough by white European, some of them killed by puritans.By 1900, statistics says there were only 220K indian left.So how many were killed by the Puritans?(1) American History, by Kenneth Davis. P9.

http://web.wenxuecity.com/BBSView.php?SubID=religion&MsgID=441642


1)首先,沒有這麽一本書叫《American History》,by Kenneth Davis.
隻有一本書叫《Don't Know Much About American History》,by Kenneth Davis.

Amazon的記錄如下:

Don't Know Much About American History (Davis, Kenneth C. Don't Know Much.) [AUDIOBOOK] [UNABRIDGED] (Audio Cassette) by Kenneth C. Davis (Author), Oliver Wyman (Narrator), Jonathan Davis (Narrator), John Beach (Narrator), Sarah Hayon (Narrator)
http://www.amazon.com/About-American-History-Davis-Kenneth/dp/0807216259

前麵一本(《American History》),像是曆史學著作。
後麵一本(《Don't Know Much About American History》),像是普及讀本。

然也。那書是普及讀本。不是曆史教材。

下麵一個讀者評論這麽說:

The Kiddie Version, January 3, 2006
By
Rebecca Rae - See all my reviewsWell this book is fine if you want the 8th grade version of US history. Of course, I myself doubt the accuracy of the book. If you look on page 141 you'll find a lovely picture of "Stalin" which tells you the man in the center of the photo is Stalin. I nearly died laughing because any idiot could see that the man in the bright white outfit standing in the center was not Stalin. Stalin is actually standing two men away to his right. I wonder if in fact this was done on purpose, so that a person just glancing at the image would simply view Stalin as this strong dictator that we must fear, instead of the rather weak person he looks like in the photo (not that Stalin was weak of course...) Bottom line: I don't trust the book. It's a whole lot of propaganda and bias. But if you can read it with that in mind, it works fine as a referrence to dates and whatnot.

2)此人有曆史研究的信譽嗎?

在他自己的主頁上寫著“Having coasted through high school and never finished college”。
http://www.dontknowmuch.com/index.php/about/about_the_series/#title

不是說資格需要文憑,而是此人有沒有從事認真的曆史研究的信譽。根據曆史研究成果或者道聽途說,寫有趣的曆史題材的故事,不能作為曆史研究的資曆。三國演義是曆史題材,但那不是曆史著作。很明顯羅貫中對曆史並不是門外漢,但他不是曆史研究的學者。對三國史實,從羅貫中那裏搞答案,是不負責任的。

3)美洲還是美國?

就引用wiki的數字好了:“20th century scholarly estimates ranged from a low of 8.4 million to a high of 112.5 million persons. ” “In 1976, geographer William Denevan used these various estimates to derive a "consensus count" of about 54 million people, although some recent estimates are lower than that.”
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Population_history_of_American_indigenous_peoples#Population_overview

這裏說的是整個美洲,整個西半球,因為同一個詞條,就說了大量的拉美的例子,包括巴西印第安人口,加勒比,印加。

清教徒最初來到北美,登錄美國東海岸。他們沒有移民拉美,所以美國講英語,而拉美講西班牙語或葡萄牙語。去拉美的,是西班牙人和葡萄牙人。西班牙人和葡萄牙人,不是清教徒,不是Puritans。

把整個美洲人口,算到美國,是荒唐的。

美國現在的人口,才到300 million。500年前的美國這片土地上的印第安人,很多部落不從事定居農耕的印第安人,人口達到“50-100 million”?人要瘋狂到一定程度才會相信。

4)算數。

我們就用100 million這個天文數字。

根據你給普及讀本的公式,當時100 million,現在幾十萬,疾病死亡70-80%,那麽就是20-30 million被清教徒殺死了。

這種分析結果能成立,需要幾個條件:

a)1500年那100 million印第安人,如果沒死,都活到了今天。換句話說,今天美國的幾十萬印第安人,都有500歲以上。不然你不能那麽作減法。

b)除了歐洲人和非洲人帶來的傳染病,美國當時沒有任何可能導致人類死亡的自然災害,比如幹旱,洪水,蝗災。。。

c)除了歐洲人和非洲人帶來的傳染病,美國當時沒有任何本地傳染性疾病造成的大規模人口喪失,比如鼠疫。

d)除了歐洲人和非洲人帶來的傳染病,美國印第安人不會被任何疾病打倒,比如癌症,肺炎。

e)除了歐洲人和非洲人帶來的傳染病,美國印第安人沒有經曆任何可能導致大規模人口死亡的人禍,比如大躍進式的饑荒,蓋勞民傷財的金字塔。。。

f)除了歐洲人和非洲人帶來的傳染病,美國印第安人之間沒有發生任何導致人口死亡的戰爭。
但是很遺憾,印第安人各個tribes之間戰爭頻繁,Apche部落就被認為好鬥善戰,而 Illini 和 Winnibego 的連年征戰,導致Winnibego 部落殺到最後隻剩了五百人。

那種得出“北美清教徒屠殺了幾千萬印地安人”的運算,缺乏依據,缺乏基本的common sense。相信這種insane數字的牛二,是在用實際行動證明自己缺乏理性思考能力,缺乏懷疑精神。

5)歐洲人來到美洲之前,印第安人在幹什麽?

這是個被普遍忽視的問題。
Aztec人是普遍搞罪惡的活人獻祭的,還是用牛二們樂意接受的wiki的數字,很低的估計是每年2萬,殺死,用於祭祀。
高的數字是每年25萬。
可以說,那鬼地方不是田園牧歌,而是陰風慘慘。
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_sacrifice_in_Aztec_culture#Estimates_of_the_scope_of_the_sacrifices

人有足夠的智慧鑒別煽動仇恨的謠言嗎?我相信,心地純良的話,尋求真相的話,長線不會一直受騙。
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