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哈佛教授眼中的中國共產黨成功秘訣（中英雙語，附視頻）
受訪者柯偉林（William Kirby）係美國哈佛大學教授 ，本文刊於5月21日CGTN微信公眾號。視頻時長約7分鍾，以下為采訪實錄：
王冠：如果將中國共產黨及其表現與其他國家的共產黨進行比較，您認為中共成功的秘訣是什麽?
柯偉林：這個問題很不錯，曆史學家很可能會在下個世紀，甚至更長時間內研究這個問題。因為我認為這是一次偉大的成功。畢竟新中國在成立之初的30年裏走了不少彎路。我認為鄧小平等領導人居功至偉，因為他們不忘初心，不忘馬克思主義的核心要義，即共產主義需要建立在堅實的物質基礎之上，不能隻停留在空想或理想層麵。共產主義並不意味著貧窮，而是意味著發展，意味著經濟發展。20世紀上半葉的中國領導人也能理解其中的內涵，並在多數情況下為之拍手稱道。
我想回顧一下孫中山先生，他的影響往往被低估了。中國目前的共產主義，更接近於孫中山所說的“民生主義”，即保障人民生計，以民生為中心。前總理溫家寶也曾說過類似的話，也就是“以人為本”，坦率地說，這是一種新方法，與以公有製為基礎的理想型共產主義不同，而後者在上世紀50年代、60年代至70年代初是中國社會的主流形態。
王冠：說到共產主義這個詞及其概念，它是國際關係中最眾說紛紜的一個詞。喬姆斯基有句名言，反共產主義是一種國家意識形態，在美國和整個西方社會都存在。從上世紀二三十年代開始，出現了一波又一波的紅色恐慌。近幾年美國對華發動新冷戰，特朗普和蓬佩奧等人掀起新一輪紅色恐慌浪潮。您認為中國共產黨在某些方麵是否重新定義了共產主義的內涵？
柯偉林：美國反對共產主義，特別是20世紀50年代反共浪潮蔓延的原因之一在於人們或對或錯地擔心並認為，它是蘇聯發起全球意識形態運動的手段。後來，人們認為中國也意圖使用這種手段來實現國際霸權。無論這種想法是對是錯，當時很多西方人都持有這種看法。這種觀點當時在歐洲也很流行。而事實上，共產主義是一場強大的，也許是20世紀最強大的全球意識形態運動。
1921年，中國共產黨成立，其中部分創始成員為莫斯科共產國際派出的代表，他們不僅僅是俄國人，還是國際共產主義者，他們相信未來世界會發展成為共產主義社會。這一場國際運動強大且團結，但最終於1960年偃旗息鼓，隨著中蘇決裂，國際共產主義運動宣告終結。之後中國堅定不移地走自己的道路，在1978年後開始踏上新征程，而蘇聯則踏上了一條與中國截然不同的道路，如今國際共產主義運動已不複存在。
所以我認為有必要先對你的評論進行梳理，也就是說，共產主義本身並不值得害怕。比如說我所處的，馬薩諸塞州列克星敦鎮就沒有這種恐懼，此處正是美國自由的搖籃地，這裏並沒有強烈的反共恐慌。坦白說，美國別處也沒有這種情緒。盡管在美國會有一些反共言論，但它僅僅是一種輿論工具，使用這種工具的人要麽是害怕未知事物，要麽是害怕中國崛起成為強國。
王冠：好的，柯教授，您曾在《中國能領導世界嗎？》一書中，對於21世紀是否會是中國世紀的問題給出了回答。您寫道，它有可能成為中國世紀，但中國不會是唯一的領導者，這該如何理解呢？
柯偉林：這話的意思是，中國肯定會成為全球領先大國，在全球關鍵事務領域，中國將發揮出傑出的影響力。但就全球領導地位而言，我認為美國民眾也體會到了，你無法將自己與世界各國分隔開來，或是把自己國家的利益放在別國之上，中國在上世紀60年代也走過這種彎路。
同樣，中國能夠崛起，正是因為它融入了國際潮流。中國的崛起與國際潮流息息相關，無論是國際共產主義運動（在此基礎上，1921年中國共產黨誕生），還是中國參加上世紀30年代末和40年代的反法西斯戰爭，抑或是在上世紀50年代加入蘇聯領導的社會主義國家陣營使得中國工業取得了長足發展等。中國從1978年開始實施對外開放，與國際經濟和社會重新建立聯係。2002年中國加入世界貿易組織。中國的崛起離不開與世界各國的聯係互動。
通過與全球夥伴保持合作，中國才取得了今天的成功。中國之所以非常成功，是因為中國非常擅於建立合作夥伴關係，它不僅在初期與蘇聯交好，後來還與美國和西歐國家交好，之後又和第三世界國家建立了夥伴關係，與非洲、中亞和南亞的國家同樣關係密切。
（以上言論僅代表專家個人觀點，不代表人大重陽立場。）
以下為英文版
Wang Guan:
When you compare the Chinese Communist Party, its performance against some of the other communist parties, what do you think is the secret formula of CPC's success?
William Kirby:
It's a great question and probably historians will be looking at this over the next century and more. Because it is, as I said, a remarkable success story, given the disasters of the first 30 years of the People's Republic. Yet, I think Deng Xiaoping and all of these individuals deserve such enormous credit for going back to the vision, really one of the central initial visions of Marx, that communism actually has a material basis. It's not purely an idea or an ideal, and that communism does not have to mean poverty. It can mean development. It can mean economic development, in a way, again, Chinese leaders of the first half of the 20th century would have understood very well and in many cases would have applauded.
Again I have to go back to Sun Yat-sen because he's under appreciated. The communism we see in China Today is much closer to what Sun Yat-sen would call “民生主義”. The livelihood of the people, taking people's livelihood as the center. This is what former Premier Wen Jiabao used to say in a different way, “以人為本”, have people as your foundation. This is a different approach, quite frankly, to the communalist and idealist approach to communism that marked China in the 1950s, 60s and in the first half of the 1970s.
Wang Guan:
And talking about the word and the concept of communism...It is believed to be one of the most loaded words in international relations. Chomsky famously said that anti-communism is a national ideology in the United States and the Western society at large. There have been waves of red scarce starting from the 1920s and 30s. Most recently, the new cold war against China, and the new red scare launched by Trump and Pompeo. Do you think the Chinese Communist Party, in some ways, has redefined the concept and the connotation of communism?
William Kirby:
One of the reasons for American anti-communism and the spread of it in the 1950s, in particular, was the fear, and the belief, then, rightly or wrongly, that this was part of a global ideology led by the Soviet Union. And then later by China also that sought a form of global domination. Right or wrong, that was widely believed in the west, certainly widely believed in Europe as well at that time. And indeed, communism was a powerful, perhaps the most powerful, global ideological movement of the 20th century.
The Chinese Communist Party when it was founded in 1921, it was founded in part by agents of the communist international from Moscow, who are not just Russian, but international communists who believed that the future of the world would be a communist world. That movement as an international is a powerful and united international movement, really fell apart, really at the latest in 1960, with the Chinese Soviet break. That ends international communism as a coherent movement. And China really goes its own path, in a quite different path after 1978, and the Soviet Union continues on a different path. But international communism basically is over as a movement today.
This is why one should take your comment quite correctly. That is communism, per se, is not something that one fears. One does not fear, for example, here in Lexington, Massachusetts, from which I'm talking to, the birthplace of American liberty. There's not a great anti-communist fear here, nor is there, quite frankly, despite some rhetoric you hear anywhere in the United States. But it remains a rhetorical tool used by those who either fear the unknown, or fear the rise of a powerful China in this case.
William Kirby:
I mean by that is that China is of course going to be one of the leading powers in the world, extraordinarily and rightfully influential in virtually every matter of global significance. But global leadership today and I think the Americans have experienced, this is not capable by hauling yourself off from the rest of the world, or putting your own country first, compared to anyone else. China experienced that in the 1960s as well.
But again, the rise of China is because of and not in spite of international currents, whether it's international communism that leads to the founding the Chinese Communist Party in 1921, whether it's part of the anti-fascist war of the late 1930s and 1940s, or whether it's part of being one of the socialist brother countries aligned with the Soviet Union in the 1950s, which helps China's development enormously in industrial terms. And then China's re-engagement with the international economic community after 1978. And again, after 2002 with the WTO, China's rise is inescapable from international engagement.
And so it is only with partners that China has been successful. And it has been remarkably successful because of its capacity to build and make partnerships, not just with the Soviet Union, first, not just with the United States and western Europe later, but now also with many parts of the world that we used to call the third world, with Africa, central Asia and South Asia.
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中國人民大學重陽金融研究院（人大重陽）成立於2013年1月19日，是重陽投資向中國人民大學捐贈並設立教育基金運營的主要資助項目。
作為中國特色新型智庫，人大重陽聘請了全球數十位前政要、銀行家、知名學者為高級研究員，旨在關注現實、建言國家、服務人民。目前，人大重陽下設7個部門、運營管理4個中心(生態金融研究中心、全球治理研究中心、中美人文交流研究中心、中俄人文交流研究中心)。近年來，人大重陽在金融發展、全球治理、大國關係、宏觀政策等研究領域在國內外均具有較高認可度。
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