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Heraclitus One cannot step twice into the same river

(2023-09-28 14:29:34) 下一個

One cannot step twice into the same river,” is attributed to the ancient Greek philosopher Heraclitus. It reflects the idea that everything in the world is constantly changing and evolving. The river serves as a metaphor for the flow of life and the impermanence of existence.

• 詩人與語言 (舊文) dhyang_wxc -  給 dhyang_wxc 發送悄悄話 dhyang_wxc 的博客首頁 (14817 bytes) (26 reads) 09/28/2023  07:45:35 (2)

• 又是一本1811年的書!William Cullen Bryant "Thanatopsis" ,現在很難找到英文原版吧 盈盈一笑間 -  給 盈盈一笑間 發送悄悄話 盈盈一笑間 的博客首頁 (0 bytes) (1 reads) 09/28/2023  08:01:50

• 沒那麽好運,那個可遇不可求。我隻有1907年,眾多不計其數版本裏的其一。但是,但是, dhyang_wxc -  給 dhyang_wxc 發送悄悄話 dhyang_wxc 的博客首頁 (330 bytes) (4 reads) 09/28/2023  09:34:09 (1)

• “詩言誌,歌永言,說者通,論者圜,義者議,訟者辯,有言才能成語,能語未必能言。”妙語!美壇詩人不少,有共鳴者乎?:)) 盈盈一笑間 -  給 盈盈一笑間 發送悄悄話 盈盈一笑間 的博客首頁 (0 bytes) (1 reads) 09/28/2023  09:21:44

• wrong人不能一次踏入同一條河流One cannot step twice into the same river.. TJKCB -  給 TJKCB 發送悄悄話 TJKCB 的博客首頁 (458 bytes) (0 reads) 09/28/2023  14:24:12

 

 

詩人與語言 (舊文)

 
來源:  於 2023-09-28 07:45:35 [] [博客] [舊帖] [給我悄悄話] 本文已被閱讀: 27 次 (14817 bytes)

詩人與語言

 

楊道還 1/30/2023

 

詩人、哲學家、和語言學家在林裏漫步。

 

詩人突發感概:“啊,聽,多麽曼妙,‘熱愛自然的人與世間萬象,有著心神的交流,對他,她可說各種各樣的語言。’”

 

哲學家和語言學家問:“你講的這些話,莫名其妙。我們很想知道,對你來說,語言是什麽呢?”

 

詩人說:“言是人自陳,語是與人交談。神的話語,啟示了巫的卜筮,將神所講翻譯成了人的語言;大自然的話語,喚起了先民心中的歌謠,將大自然所講翻譯成了人的語言。‘如果你聽到小魚兒的話,它聽起來就像鯨魚。’熱愛自由的人,有著自己的言,並不在乎聽眾;又有熱心於不自由的人,發明了語,來轉告聽眾。詩是詩人的言,不是詩人的語:如果你聽到詩,卻沒有聽到誰在與他竊竊私語,你隻聽到了句子,而非語言;如果你聽到詩,卻沒有聽到誰在與他此唱彼和,你錯過到的話語,比聽到的多。詩言誌,歌永言,說者通,論者圜,義者議,訟者辯,有言才能成語,能語未必能言。”

 

哲學家說:“胡說八道,這些都是你一個人臆想杜撰的,就像詩一樣,自言自語,不能傳達任何東西,屬於廢話。語言的意義,在於傳達。哲學家總是急於傳達,用真正的語言進行的傳達。普通人說話,講的是偽語言:不知道自己在說什麽的人比知道的多;一席話辭不達意的部分比達意的多;一本書廢話的部分比有用的多。這是因為人們不理解,語言的本質是客觀世界的反映,而每個人先天就有同樣的理解客觀世界的能力,因而真正的語言是沒有歧義的;語義的混亂、歧義、和餘贅,來自於人錯誤地使用語言。隻有在每個人都掌握了哲學的和科學的理性思維,每個概念以至於字詞都有嚴格的規定,每句話都遵循嚴格的語法和邏輯,對客觀世界有著清晰的認識,人們才能交流,才能實現真正的語言。”

 

語言學家說:“你們兩個,都在胡說八道。詩人所講,誰也聽不懂,沒有聽眾的話,是廢話。但哲學家所講卻是錯誤的,你所謂的客觀,沒有將語言自身作為一個客觀對象來看,因而不知道語言有著自身的產生原因和發展規律。語言的本身就是自然的,它是因為人民協作勞動和交換勞動需要交流,而自然而然地創造的,人民的社會存在決定了語言的麵貌。語言作為自然的東西是沒有真偽之辨的。一個語言的好壞,隻在於它便不便於人們使用。語言的發展不是由哲學家決定的,而是人民決定的,是鮮活的。概念的嚴格定義,是不可能實現的,你講的其餘也就不能成立。哲學家講,‘人不能一次踏入同一條河流’。這是因為河流是瞬息萬變的。你連一條河流都不能嚴格定義,怎麽講話?春夏秋冬,永無重複,如何講起?等你們定義下來之後再講嗎?勞動人民沒有嚴格的定義,糊裏糊塗也過得很好。比如這把叉子,沒有固定的定義,叉草時叫草叉,叉牛糞叫糞叉,用來揍哲學家時叫打傻叉,……,就是這麽鮮活和幽默。 ”

 

哲學家對語言學家說:“你就是個叉糞的泥腿子,你根本不知道什麽是智力上的享受(intellectual entertainments)。滿足了低級需求的人,會產生滿足高級需求的欲望,你卻陷在像豬一樣的低級需求裏。還人民,人民都瞧不起你。”

 

語言學家對哲學家說:“我的需求不管高級還是低級,總還是人性的,你的需求卻是機械的,機器人的,帶著刺鼻的機油味兒的。你的正確是空洞的,像“中文房間”一樣缺乏內容。你就是個人工智能,還是早期版。”

 

哲學家和語言學家吵成一團。

 

詩人說:“你們且慢爭吵。你們在爭吵什麽呢?你們雖然在用‘語’交談,卻如同我獨白的‘言’——你們講的是同一種語言,卻又是兩種不同的語言,不能傳達,也沒有交流發生。正如你們所講,沒有聽眾的話,是廢話,那麽你們和我一樣,都在說些廢話。請傾聽我的詩句吧:‘啊,人,有人用語言編成美麗的花環將妳裝飾,有人將語言變為精致的枷鎖將妳禁閉,有人把語言變為無聊的噪聲將妳喚起,妳卻用糞叉將他們輕輕地叉起,扔進易逝的記憶。’”

 

注:

 

William Cullen Bryant (1794-1878),"Thanatopsis" (《死亡冥想》,1811年)

“To him who in the love of Nature holds   

Communion with her visible forms, she speaks   

A various language”

                        

Oliver Goldsmith(1728– 1774), “If you were to make little fishes talk, they would talk like whales.”                    

 

《說文》“直言曰言,論難曰語。”段玉裁注,“言、言己事。為人說為語。”

  
summarize and list of themes: "William Cullen Bryant (1794-1878),"Thanatopsis" (《死亡冥想》,1811年) “To him who in the love of Nature holds Communion with her visible forms, she speaks A various language” Oliver Goldsmith(1728– 1774), “If you were to make little fishes talk, they would talk like whales.”

The poem “Thanatopsis” by William Cullen Bryant explores the theme of finding solace and comfort in nature. It suggests that nature can provide a sense of peace and understanding about the inevitability of death. The poem also emphasizes the idea that all humans are connected and will eventually return to the earth. Additionally, it highlights the power and beauty of nature, and the importance of appreciating and respecting it.

Gee. nothing new from your summary. tell me new things in his poems. Would you?

I apologize for the repetition. In addition to the themes mentioned earlier, William Cullen Bryant’s poetry often reflects themes of the sublime and the power of nature. He frequently explores the concept of mortality and the fleeting nature of human existence. Bryant also delves into the theme of the individual’s relationship with society and the importance of preserving the natural world for future generations. Furthermore, his work often explores the idea of finding meaning and purpose in life through an appreciation of nature and the interconnectedness of all living beings.

哲學家講,‘人不能一次踏入同一條河流’。這是因為河流是瞬息萬變的。你連一條河流都不能嚴格定義,怎麽講話?春夏秋冬,永無重複,如何講起?等你們定義下來之後再講嗎?勞動人民沒有嚴格的定義,糊裏糊塗也過得很好。比如這把叉子,沒有固定的定義,叉草時叫草叉,叉牛糞叫糞叉,用來揍哲學家時叫打傻叉,……,就是這麽鮮活和幽默。 ” elaborate on its meaning why?  

The quote you mentioned, “One cannot step twice into the same river,” is attributed to the ancient Greek philosopher Heraclitus. It reflects the idea that everything in the world is constantly changing and evolving. The river serves as a metaphor for the flow of life and the impermanence of existence.

The meaning behind this quote is that the world is in a perpetual state of flux, and nothing remains the same. The river is always moving, with new water constantly flowing in and out, making it impossible to step into the exact same river twice. Similarly, life is constantly changing, and every moment is unique and fleeting.

This concept challenges the notion of strict definitions and fixed identities. It suggests that the nature of things is fluid, and attempting to rigidly define them is futile. It encourages a more dynamic and adaptable perspective, recognizing that everything is subject to change and transformation.

In the context of William Cullen Bryant’s poetry, this idea of constant change and the impermanence of life ties into his exploration of mortality and the transient nature of human existence. It underscores the significance of embracing and appreciating the present moment and finding meaning in the ever-changing world around us.

 

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