我對西藏騷亂事件的看法
熱鬧愛好者
首先我覺得中國政府在這件事情上是嚴重失職的。第一它沒有監測到這件事情的發生或者沒有采取得力的措施去製止它的發生;第二在事情發生時沒有及時采取堅決措施防止事態的擴大,致使18(更多?)個無辜群眾死亡,數百人受傷;第三在事情結束(或第一階段結束)後沒有正確報道說明這件事情。
其中沒有保護好18個無辜群眾的生命錯誤最嚴重,任何的考慮(反對或支持西藏獨立、保護或反對奧運會)都不應該優先於人民群眾的生命安全。
而沒有正確地報道說明這件事情卻暴露出政府的愚昧與無能。
首先強調政府沒有開槍就是極端錯誤的,隨後又承認確實開槍了就更是愚蠢!其實開槍與否根本就不應該是關注的重點,重點應該是當時政府為什麽沒有采取有力措施製止騷亂,保護人民群眾的生命財產安全?在我看來看著自己的人民被暴徒毆打致死而不開槍才是嚴重的失職!
然後把這次騷亂和達賴喇嘛聯係起來我認為也是錯誤的。到現在為止我還沒有看到非常確鑿的證據證明這一點,而且這樣也毫無必要的把這次騷亂事件引入到了關於西藏獨立的爭論之中去了。我認為這次事件到現在為止就是一起典型騷亂事件,將主要責任人以謀殺等刑事罪名起訴就可以了,一切讓法庭去決定。該死刑死刑,該坐牢坐牢,該釋放釋放。
挑選18家媒體去西藏采訪也是非常錯誤的做法。我認為如果西藏已經安全了,那麽就應該允許平常可以去的媒體自由采訪。而如果西藏還不安全,那麽任何媒體都不應該允許去采訪。一切都應該隻從安全的角度考慮,而不要一味屈從於外界的壓力。
我認為和外國政府討論這次事件也屬多餘,但是我不認為我們應該指責外國政府幹涉內政。我認為我們需要的是告訴外國政府這是刑事案件,一切由公安部門和法院係統去處理,請他們不要幹涉我們的司法。
其次我認為我們很多海外華人在這件事情上處理也不是非常正確。
第一我認為很多華人對西方媒體和西方人(實際上應該說任何非華人)有不切實際的想法。他們總認為西方媒體和西方人對中國有偏見,想去糾正。而我覺得這根本不是偏見的問題,這是立場的問題。
確實有很多西方媒體和很多西方人對中國有很多的不了解,但是我們對他們,或者對中國自己、或者對其他中國人、甚至對你身邊的很多人又有多少的了解呢?仔細想想,我們就應該知道,我們對別人的看法,或者別人對我們的看法,很多時候不是取決於我們對別人了解或者不了解,而是取決於我們和他們的立場。而我們能改變他們的立場嗎?我相信除非我們能夠改變別人的國籍,否則我們永遠改變不了別人的立場。嗬嗬,在西藏,我們確實改變了他們的國籍,但是其中有一些人的立場卻還沒有改變啊。
所以我希望那些還想改變西方媒體和西方人的華人麵對現實一點,對那些有偏見的報道一笑了之罷。
第二我認為我們海外華人在這件事情上麵不要去和本地人討論西藏是否屬於中國的問題,而應該強調,無論西藏是否應該獨立,殘殺無辜群眾都是嚴重的犯罪,都必須被製止被審判。無論開槍與否,政府都必須保護無辜群眾的生命安全。
第三我很佩服那些組織起來去遊行示威的海外華人,但是考慮到我上麵提到的第一點,我覺得這是對牛談琴,我們是改變不了西方人的立場的,何必浪費精力呢?如果確實想遊行示威,我也建議將議題集中在強調嚴懲殺人凶手上來,而不要去強調西藏是中國的一部分。現在西藏已經是中國的一部分,我們有何必去強調呢?這樣我們也可以避免永遠討論西方媒體給我們設定的議題。
第四對於西方所謂抵製奧運會的問題,我覺得我們也應該輕鬆對待。在現在這個時間,已經沒有任何其他城市可以取代北京來主辦這場奧運會了,抵製北京奧運會的損失並不隻有中國承擔。所以,對於任何提出抵製奧運會的人士,我們隻需要說聲遺憾就可以了。
至於西藏問題本身,我想隻要還有語言文化的差異,它永遠也不會有徹底解決的一天。想想英倫三島罷。
是的,文學城上和中國海內外很多其他論壇裏很多網友的激烈言論很容易激化漢藏之間的矛盾,這是非常令人痛心的。實際上,在拉薩和其他一些地方的暴亂中,參與鬧事的隻是一小撮藏人,絕大部分的藏人(包括以藏人為主體的西藏自治區政府)是反對暴亂的。在暴亂中也有被燒死的藏族姑娘,也有藏族朋友掩護漢族朋友的。我們不應該讓一小撮人引起的暴亂演變成漢藏之間的衝突。
我們當然可以說任何我們想說的話,但是我們應該選擇對我們有利、對方也更容易認同的地方著手。
西藏從語言文化人種上都和中國有很大差別。和朝鮮,越南,台灣,新疆,外蒙古,甚至日本比起來,西藏和中國的差別更大。但是既然西藏已經是中國的一部分,就沒有放棄的理由。要治理好西藏是要高度智慧的。我感覺,憤青們的行為,隻會使形勢惡化。
My feeling is people in the US truly don't like the GOVERNMENT of China, not the Chinese people or China as a nation. India also and will consume a lot of resources. I never heard anything about India as a threat.
Well you may say because India is on their side or something even worse. Then why can't we be on their side? After all, all the stuff the "west" is asking China to do ain't so bad, democracy, freedom of press. We used to be on their side in World War II.
You my again say but those things are not fit for Chinese reality. Well if they worked for Taiwan, Hongkong, South Korea and Japan, why are we Chinese so inferior and can not make it work?
Think my friend, think.
這也不用,那也不用。就讓人家隨便說啊。人都像你這麽沉得住氣, 拿來這麽多事兒。
事後分析,和遇事及時處理是兩回事。
從這篇文章中看出中國的希望(一個國家的水準取決於人民的水準)
此文章不僅精確
難得的是有自己的見解
不像很多其它文章隻是人雲亦雲
自以為很有見識充其量不過就是不會思考的傳聲筒
中國人不是一直強調愛好和平及以德服人嗎?
就算這次事件是像很多人所相信的由西方挑起要抹黑中國人┅┅等等
以這樣的方式解決
不就中了西方的計了嗎?
這次事件中完全看不到以德服人更不用說愛好和平了!
封鎖消息
挑選媒體去采訪
最後又洋洋得意的說西方媒體報導造假
這就是秧秧大國的氣度嗎?
毫無疑問中國政府作過很多罪惡的事情,尤其是在改革開放前,而且現在它也還在繼續犯錯。
但是我仍然在某種程度上繼續相信中國政府,因為正是這個政府,使中國擺脫了近百年的屈辱,使中國有了核武器和洲際導彈,有了基本完整的工業體係,使得我們擺脫了象南斯拉夫、伊拉克那樣的命運。讓我們現在終於有了一個發展的機會。
世界上沒有完美的政府,我們也沒有太多的選擇。
這是資源缺乏導致的競爭的結果。我們要生存就必須奮鬥,沒有別人可以依靠。
try to get into chinese local website like www.sina.com.cn, www.soh.com, and you will find those sites are reporting totally different things from what we heard these days.
is it necessary to do the media control like that in China? the government really think people would then believe in what the government bullshits about.
there are certainly western medias deliverately reporting wrong information about the tibaten riots but is the chinese government fair and honest???
its a dirty world and why everybody cares so much! fucck it...........
蘇聯的解體誰幹的?美 國.
如今中國經濟在變強,美國經濟今後5年或將難有起色.在這種背境下,美國會尋找外務能刺激國內經濟複蘇同時轉移國內民眾視野的做法--戰征.
戰征有因,無因可製造--這是發動戰事國的通行做法.
西藏--台海-朝鮮半島---世界能原物資爭奪:美國不會對待中國像對待它的同盟國那樣,讓你兼並它的能原,安全設備等公司.
明白了這些,將不難理解為何西方媒體醜化中國.
望各位明察.
ZT: 衛星圖像--武警假冒喇嘛造亂
http://www.youpai.org/forums/viewtopic.php?t=3950&sid=badc8a26da42414e6304c57c6c546fea
Chinese Soldiers Posing as Monks in Tibet
This is not an uncommon 'tactical move' from the Chinese government as could be seen from the 2003 annual TCHRD Report
Canada Free Press [Friday, March 21, 2008 10:20]
Brit spies confirm Dalai Lama's report of staged violence
http://buddhism.kalachakranet.org/chinese-orchestrating-riots-tibet.htm
By Gordon Thomas
London, March 20 - Britain's GCHQ, the government communications agency that electronically monitors half the world from space, has confirmed the claim by the Dalai Lama that agents of the Chinese People's Liberation Army, the PLA, posing as monks, triggered the riots that have left hundreds of Tibetans dead or injured.
GCHQ analysts believe the decision was deliberately calculated by the Beijing leadership to provide an excuse to stamp out the simmering unrest in the region, which is already attracting unwelcome world attention in the run-up to the Olympic Games this summer.
For weeks there has been growing resentment in Lhasa, Tibet's capital, against minor actions taken by the Chinese authorities.
Increasingly, monks have led acts of civil disobedience, demanding the right to perform traditional incense burning rituals. With their demands go cries for the return of the Dalai Lama, the 14th to hold the high spiritual office.
Committed to teaching the tenets of his moral authority---peace and compassion---the Dalai Lama was 14 when the PLA invaded Tibet in 1950 and he was forced to flee to India from where he has run a relentless campaign against the harshness of Chinese rule.
But critics have objected to his attraction to film stars. Newspaper magnate Rupert Murdoch has called him: "A very political monk in Gucci shoes."
Discovering that his supporters inside Tibet and China would become even more active in the months approaching the Olympic Games this summer, British intelligence officers in Beijing learned the ruling regime would seek an excuse to move and crush the present unrest.
That fear was publicly expressed by the Dalai Lama. GCHQ's satellites, geo-positioned in space, were tasked to closely monitor the situation.
The doughnut-shaped complex, near Cheltenham racecourse, is set in the pleasant Cotswolds in the west of England. Seven thousand employees include the best electronic experts and analysts in the world. Between them they speak more than 150 languages. At their disposal are 10,000 computers, many of which have been specially built for their work.
The images they downloaded from the satellites provided confirmation the Chinese used agent provocateurs to start riots, which gave the PLA the excuse to move on Lhasa to kill and wound over the past week.
What the Beijing regime had not expected was how the riots would spread, not only across Tibet, but also to Sichuan, Quighai and Gansu provinces, turning a large area of western China into a battle zone.
------------------------------------------------------------
Yesterday (March 27, 2008) His Holiness the Dalai Lama spoke directly about the troubles in Tibet, asking all supporters worldwide to help in any way they can, providing that this happens in a strictly non-violent way. He explained that this is a moment of crisis, and that it is all of us, rather than the Tibetans in exile, who have the potential to shift the situation.
His Holiness specifically stated, not for the first time, that Tibetan dharma cannot survive without Tibetan freedom. He explained that only Tibetan Buddhism has been able to preserve the full Nalanda tradition and its message of universal compassion, its techniques to promote inner values and its teachings on interdependence, with their extraordinary potential to bring peace and harmony to the modern world.
One of the only ways that we can influence the decisions of the Chinese government is to show that there is widespread and increasing public condemnation of their actions in Tibet. How can we do this? How can we link together all the feelings of individuals, who by themselves may feel powerless, but as a group could have an unforgettable impact?
We have a simple suggestion. We all want to stand up for Tibet. Let's do it, literally. Every day, let's commit to simply standing up. just for a few moments, with either a printed or digital photo of the Tibetan flag in our hands. Individually or in a group. Quietly or noisily. In the most creative and spectacular way imaginable. On the street, in schools, on trains and buses, in the workplace, in bars and restaurants. Let's be visible, newsworthy, fun and contagious. We want to make our feelings public throughout the world, and we want millions of people to join in.
March 31st has been designated an international day of action by the International Tibet Support Network. Will you stand up that day, wherever you happen to be? And then continue, as long as the situation lasts.
We are not only standing up for one country that is experiencing oppression, but for every act of injustice and repression that has happened personally to us, or to other people in the world.
This is something we can all do for Tibet. Who can you phone, text or email and encourage to join in? Can we make this happen across the globe, particularly during the next weeks, before it is too late? We need your help and are very grateful for anything you can do to make this happen.
With a big prayer for peace in Tibet
Valentina and Alison
Spread at the request of Lama Zopa Rinpoche
福兮禍所依,禍兮福所至。原本西方用來攻擊中國的希藏,現在反而成了中國人團結的力量
I hope you are not right, but quite possibly you are! Anyway I just wrote my thoughts. 但求心之所安。
西藏已經是中國的領土,為什麽要去爭論是不是呢?從來都是勝者王,敗者寇,就像台灣,你以為爭論一下,台灣人就甘心被大陸統一?做夢吧。人家不敢獨立,是因為怕大陸的飛彈!!
這裏有一個身份的問題和觀感的問題:
身份的問題在於,在菲律賓為菲律賓的事務遊行示威 和 在美國加拿大歐洲為漢藏民族的問題(跟美國加拿大歐洲普通民眾沒有直接關係)遊行示威是大不同的。
觀感的問題在於,西方很多人認為西藏人民是弱小的一方,你在這裏舉行(關於西藏是中國的一部分的)遊行示威是怎麽回事?所以我說如果一定要遊行示威也要集中在要求懲罰凶手上麵。
這是我所讀到過的有關“西藏事件”最理性的一篇文章,大頂特頂一下!
really miss mr mao now, if he is here today, damn those tibetans dont even dare to show up in the street.
It is horrible. There is no fact, there are footing, standing, seat, and status. How about bias? Sometimes,people's experiences biased their outlook ( a point of view, an attitude ) and Life . . . It tends to respond to our outlook, to shape itself to meet our expectations.
How is the expectation going, like 西方媒體或西方人,溫總理 or 達賴?
3月中旬開始的西藏事件(不是單純的314啊,就象89學運,不是單純的64哈,因果關係)沒及時處理,是因為領導們在專心致誌地開會(黨代會,人大會,政協會,決定自己的位置和前途呀,馬虎不得)。
大陸本來想把西藏問題捂住蓋住,因為領導們一門心思想搞好北京奧運會,為“盛世”掛匾,為自己清史留名造勢,不希望這些“小事”影響和諧社會。其實北京奧運會始作俑者是早已下獄的陳希同,十年奧運是古都北京又一次的“文化大革命”的浩劫。
不想西方媒體在西藏信息不全麵時就發言引起部分海外華人反彈,迫使大陸政府不得不出麵處理西藏問題。海外一些華人給大陸領導層出難題,為奧運會準備添亂呀。(周末去不去遊行示威還是請示報告領館為宜,哈哈。)
君不知,現在是“和諧”社會,為辦奧運會“穩定”壓倒一切,“安定團結”是領導層夢寐以求的頭等大事。出了“事”要盡快捂起來,最好是“大事化小,小事化了”,你好我好,大家嘻嘻哈哈混過奧運會,其他的以後再說。告誡各位少給領導們添亂為宜。
比如台灣問題,十五年來大陸堅持“九二共識就是一個中國---中華人民共和國”,台灣則從早期堅持“九二共識一中各表”(中華民國和中華人民共和國同屬一個中國)。因為對“九二共識”都沒有公識,從李登輝到陳水扁就在台獨的道路上越走越遠。當國民黨本土化後馬英九也高喊“台獨是一個選項”並大選勝利後,大陸從“反分裂”“不惜武統”的強硬態度又退回到承認“九二共識一中各表”。估計這個表態隻是拖延而已,留給下人領導人的和稀泥罷了。
西藏問題,台灣問題,大陸問題,其實就是一個“民族,民權,民生”問題,隻要想解決問題就會找到辦法。問題是領導層想不想解決,民眾層敢不敢“用雞蛋碰石頭”。
中國最大的問題在於“國民”,有什麽樣的國民才會有什麽樣的政府。海外華人不管呼籲“民運”還是“愛國”,都是對領導層的“添亂”。。。從梁啟超的“變革”,康有為的“改良”,到孫文“共和”,蔣中正的“攘外必先安內”,毛澤東的“槍杆子裏麵出政權”,華國鋒的“兩個凡是”,鄧小平的“黑貓白貓能抓住老鼠就是好貓”,胡耀邦的“破除迷信解放思想”,江澤民的“三個代表”,胡錦濤的“以民為本”。。。百年過去了,仍然應驗了代代相傳的“民智未開”。。。還是寄希望於下個世紀吧。
我也覺得,中國政府這次嚴重失職,完全被動,事到如今除了重複一些毫無新意的宣傳還沒有拿出有利的應對措施來。隻要看這個表現就知道他們還是不會吸取教訓,所有的矛盾仍然沒有解決,那麽就難說什麽時候還有下一次。
一、把母國的政治引入到歸化國在任何一個國家都是忌諱,(這也是50年代中國政府不承認雙重國籍的主要原因)我非常支持華人參與當地政治,但是卻對在歸化國舉行遊行示威等手段來支持中國政府(我們的母國)非常保留。有很多事情可以做卻不適合說,尤其是大聲說。
二、很多西方人是非常支持達賴喇嘛和西藏獨立的,當然這跟達賴喇嘛的魅力無關,(實際上正好相反的是,達賴喇嘛的所謂魅力完全來自於西方的支持)而是和我一再強調的立場有關。他們不是不知道農奴製,他們不是不知道西藏即使獨立也必須依靠一個大國,但是他們就是要支持達賴喇嘛和西藏獨立,而這一切就是為了對付中國。在這種情況下,我們有怎麽能說服他們呢?
三、強調懲罰打砸搶的犯罪分子、維持法律秩序是我們最有力的話題。以言論觀點論罪在西方不流行(除非你違反了他們的愛國主義),但是維持法治在這裏卻大有市場。
一、雖然這是一起政治性事件和治安性事件,但是我們盡量要忽略它的政治性,而主要從社會治安這個角度來處理這個事件,不依言論定罪,而以行為定罪;
二、我不認為存在需要我們去教育的西方媒體或西方人,當然我也需要在適當的時候向我們身邊的非中國人提出我們對西藏騷亂事件的看法,但是我不希望我們把話題停留在西藏是否應該獨立,我認為我們討論的話題應該是打砸搶的犯罪分子是否應該受到懲罰的問題。
但是遊行示威活動是有必要的,方向應該定在抗議暴力,揭發藏族暴民打砸搶燒的真相上。至於西藏是中國的一部分不必刻意強調,也沒必要和西方人解釋,本來就是嘛,就好比沒人會和街坊鄰居一個個的解釋我弟弟和我是一家人(即便家裏有些矛盾)一樣?說了反而別人覺得你心虛。自己家裏的事,本來就沒有啥好說的,鄰居服不服,我不管,那是鄰居自己的事,我沒法控製。