凜子2008-01-29 05:52:47回複悄悄話
I like your writing style very much. Plain words with some philosophical thinking.
孤舟蓑笠翁502007-12-11 19:34:17回複悄悄話
I would agree completely if either party (or both) proceeded the divorce with no third party’s involvement – have some decency (if he has any :).
Otherwise, please don’t waist energy creating 冠冕堂皇的理由中傷對方 (like here the wife was just a woman with no spiritual taste and elegance etc.). 盡可借用“莫須有”啊. The energies saved can be used completely for the third party – isn’t it a win-win situation!
anie2007-11-29 20:38:56回複悄悄話
Good comments! If I continue it will be - Men will receive respect from their wives if they continue respect their wives. The respect should come from HEART (not making it as a must do task or even a task one has to do but not even willing to do) so the respect will be shown on daily communication and behavior or even a face expression. I believe Gold Rule will play.
We are so deeply in sin so we make it so hard to do. It’s not hard to respect friends, co-workers, etc but the person we know so well and we chose to be live in the same roof.
If is so true that tolerance is one of the key factor to keep the marriage going. And it is also so true that selfishlessness is the basic condition to make the tolerance possible. Yet, this must come from both sides otherwise one side will reach the tolerance threshood and start thinking about leaving.
I am not trying to be "pessimistic". Some times, one of the reason for a man to stay with problematic marriage is sex. Once he reaches certain point in his life when he no longer weights the sex as much as personal satisfactory at other fronts, the marriage is no longer an attraction.
Sorry for this "straight talk". It appears that some wives want to blaim the broken marriage on their husbands' unfaithfulness to the marriage. Yet I believe they should also realize that, as it is unblievable as it sounds, there are many men actually weight the marriage very heavily. But some want to get out so badly simply because they do not feel to be respected even though they have been trying so hard, selfishlessly, to respect their wives, yet do not get selfishless respect from the other half.
anie2007-11-28 20:55:17回複悄悄話
I used to read an article some where saying that when women ask for divorce they may have different reasons men only have one reason that is he has an affair. It’s true for what I saw around me. I believe if Lao Zheng didn't have the new lover he would never ask for divorce. He survived for 20 year why not more?! Good couples are those who are willing to change themselves to match the other half. The result is that they will be changed to match each other. Danial Neal(I believe he is an inventor) was asked a question. What are the rules you live by? He answered: “…That and tolerance. It’s about listening to other people’s perspectives on problems and needs and being open to them, and being willing to change your point of view” Selfish person only see his or her needs and problem and can’t see other’s even the one lived together for years.
laojie2007-11-28 06:00:16回複悄悄話
回複SunDiego的評論:"or a satisfying spirit?" -- Based on this story, do you really believe that Lao-Zheng is after a "satifying spirit"? If you are a woman, you don't know men; if you are a man, you don't know yourself (I assume you are honest).
Good point but what's more important, a clean floor or a satisfying spirit? I think at different stage people value them differently. Yes I am pretty sure 老鄭 miss the clean floor but as long as he can tolerate a dirtier floor, everything will be good.
同意.他老鄭其實該早離,但是在當時的中國會有很大壓力.
Otherwise, please don’t waist energy creating 冠冕堂皇的理由中傷對方 (like here the wife was just a woman with no spiritual taste and elegance etc.). 盡可借用“莫須有”啊. The energies saved can be used completely for the third party – isn’t it a win-win situation!
不合適的人應該早分開.
對老鄭來說地板是否要多幹淨也許並不重要.
We are so deeply in sin so we make it so hard to do. It’s not hard to respect friends, co-workers, etc but the person we know so well and we chose to be live in the same roof.
If is so true that tolerance is one of the key factor to keep the marriage going. And it is also so true that selfishlessness is the basic condition to make the tolerance possible. Yet, this must come from both sides otherwise one side will reach the tolerance threshood and start thinking about leaving.
I am not trying to be "pessimistic". Some times, one of the reason for a man to stay with problematic marriage is sex. Once he reaches certain point in his life when he no longer weights the sex as much as personal satisfactory at other fronts, the marriage is no longer an attraction.
Sorry for this "straight talk". It appears that some wives want to blaim the broken marriage on their husbands' unfaithfulness to the marriage. Yet I believe they should also realize that, as it is unblievable as it sounds, there are many men actually weight the marriage very heavily. But some want to get out so badly simply because they do not feel to be respected even though they have been trying so hard, selfishlessly, to respect their wives, yet do not get selfishless respect from the other half.
Good point but what's more important, a clean floor or a satisfying spirit? I think at different stage people value them differently. Yes I am pretty sure 老鄭 miss the clean floor but as long as he can tolerate a dirtier floor, everything will be good.
其實我認為本文的結局並非結局，也許隻是另一段故事的開始。新婚自然春風得意，隻是5年後，7年後呢，是否從新來過。同卵雙生的雙胞胎，都可以大不相同，更何況兩個毫無血緣的異性男女。一起生活50，100年，永遠什麽都一致，是根本不可能的。時間可以毀滅一切，在這一點上，前妻和女記者沒區別。所以我同意老蔫兒的兼容和容忍，或者類似的概念。不過我要補充一點，婚姻是兩個人的事，如果隻有單方麵兼容或容忍也是無法維係的。像老鄭和前妻雙方都沒有這種兼容意向，分手到也是合情合理了。
Wafik：那位老大姐的話有哲理啊！人民群眾的眼睛是雪亮的。
SAM333 ：俺就怕看到全心全意付出的女人，往往沒有好結局。
laojie 、卡夫 、suiyuan9 砂鍋2 浪漫櫻花、心靈之約 等一幹網友們：老鄭兩口子的日子挺不正常的，他們兩個人的溝通存在嚴重問題。從某種意義上說老鄭也算有良心，等到女兒離家了才提出離婚。
他們倆後來都再婚了，剛結婚時老鄭的確意氣風發，後來過得怎麽樣我出國了沒有聯係就不好說了。
如果結局是真的，那是他們都很幸運，晚年還找到了合適自己的那一半。現實生活中，這樣的幸運兒不知道能有幾個。
他們那個年代，真正以愛情為基礎的婚姻恐怕不多，不過經過20多年的風風雨雨，就是沒有愛情，親情還是在的，能真正拋棄這個親情的男人，心還真夠狠！
自私的要別人理解他，他試過去理解一下老婆麽，如果老婆不愛他，會一直照顧他麽？老鄭自以為是的高尚愛好又在何時傷了老婆的自尊呢，難道自私至此，還能獲得幸福？
行，捧過了，再侃兩句。不是批評，甚至不能算是評論。隻能算是忽悠吧。
男女婚姻這事兒實在是難講。丈夫要離婚，移情別戀當然可能是原因。但從俺有限的人圈兒來看，比例並不高。隻有極少數因男人回國發展，來來往往多了在國內找了個“第二春”最後撤了毯子。其他似乎隻能算是無法再在一個屋簷下共存了。原因可能再簡單不過：”男人來自火星，女人來自金星”。思維方式太不一樣了。。。
以上是看了真妮前一篇兒有感而發的開頭。結果一忙，把機會錯過了。她自己把話給說了，把上篇兒的窟窿給堵上了。得，咱就不再接那個話茬兒，接著這個來吧！
真妮說的極是。不過俺還想再加一點兒，婚姻“大多”是沒有對錯。隻是合適不合適。至於說愛情，想來大夥聽說過這樣一個說法：結婚是愛情的結束，生孩子是愛情的墳墓。這話可能過於極端。也別說老蔫兒太悲觀。曾和幾個年輕朋友交流過。沒有人能很好地回答“什麽是愛情”。而且通常女孩兒在一開始還能描述幾句。就這話茬兒反問幾句詞兒就沒了。不少男孩兒一開始就是一張問號的臉。當然這是在男女朋友，或少夫妻不在一塊兒時問的。必須承認，這個問題太複雜。對年輕人來說，太理想化。對年齡大一些的人來說，什麽都幹過，什麽都經曆。問了半天，結果隻剩下 “親情”二字。
曾問過熱戀中吵架的少男少女什麽是維持婚姻的關鍵。他們異口同聲地說“愛情”
問到具體的，則張口結舌。又說是“妥協”。又問為什麽能妥協，則又是語塞。最後老蔫兒和他們窮拽說，維持婚姻隻有兩條：兼容和容忍。要說兼容，那得要是“吃喝拉撒睡，衣食住行性”，缺一不可。您可能要問，世上沒有完全兼容的人。對啦，這就是為什麽要有容忍。就是容忍那些雖然大多兼容，但還少不了會有讓人想跳腳罵街抽嘴巴子的事兒。人很聰明，經常會調整容忍的門檻兒來給自己找理由不跳到城外邊兒去。當最後逼得走投無路了，門檻兒高過鼻梁，實在過不去，隻好離婚了事兒。看來老鄭就是這麽回事兒。
不過，結束是顯得有些俗。除非這是個兒真事兒。要不怎麽說我們都是世俗之人呢。
但是執行起來困難多多。