Union 團體 has a full spectrum, from the well defined entities to the less so.
Wei, in order to invalidate the universality of democracy, argues from the less defined end point, while, Bao, in order to establish the validity of democracy, argues from the more clearly defined end point. They never go far enough to meet each other in the middle of the spectrum.
As it appears to me, Wei has a broader view of the reality. Bao is more about an idea.
Just a thought, since I just quickly looked through part of the discussion below.
