http://www.experts-exchange.com/ITPro/Consulting/A_2111-WARNING-5-Reasons-why-you-should-NEVER-fix-a-computer-for-free.html
Thus proving, ...if you don't charge, you won't get any respect.
Thank you DrDamnit,
All that you described in this article happen to me for a last 30 years when I decided to not receive a money from my "friend, a neighbor, a relative, a good client, a bad client, a pretty girl...".
I have never seen such article in the past 30 years in any computer magazine.
Just now, I start with new and changed thinking ...
my best regards
Nrisimha
Thank you DrDamnit,
All that you described in this article happen to me for a last 30 years when I decided to not receive a money from my "friend, a neighbor, a relative, a good client, a bad client, a pretty girl...".
I have never seen such article in the past 30 years in any computer magazine.
Just now, I start with new and changed thinking ...
my best regards
Nrisimha
WARNING: 5 Reasons why you should NEVER fix a computer for free.
It is in our nature to love the puzzle. We are obsessed. The lot of us. We love puzzles. We love the challenge. We thrive on finding the answer. We hate disarray. It bothers us deep in our soul.
We love the accolades. We love to be seen as the digital white knight who fixed the server, the computer, the email, and anything else that life depends on.
We love it so much, we sometimes make horrible decisions. Sometimes, we work "FOR FREE."
We've all done it. A friend, a neighbor, a relative, a good client, a bad client, a pretty girl... Whoever it was, and for whatever reason, we all threw them a technological bone and fixed something for free. In rare instances, it can be a rewarding experience. Perhaps your buddy gave you a beer. Maybe someone said thank you. Maybe there was a smile on their face, and that was rewarding enough.
More likely, however, that five minute task you thought you were signing up for turned into 40 minutes, then an hour, then a commitment. Wow. You didn't see that coming.
There are 5 reasons you should ALWAYS hand out a bill.
Vote "Yes" for this article, then, click here to get more game changing insight at DrDamnit's EE Blog.
Get to know the author on Facebook or Experts Exchange.
We love the accolades. We love to be seen as the digital white knight who fixed the server, the computer, the email, and anything else that life depends on.
We love it so much, we sometimes make horrible decisions. Sometimes, we work "FOR FREE."
We've all done it. A friend, a neighbor, a relative, a good client, a bad client, a pretty girl... Whoever it was, and for whatever reason, we all threw them a technological bone and fixed something for free. In rare instances, it can be a rewarding experience. Perhaps your buddy gave you a beer. Maybe someone said thank you. Maybe there was a smile on their face, and that was rewarding enough.
More likely, however, that five minute task you thought you were signing up for turned into 40 minutes, then an hour, then a commitment. Wow. You didn't see that coming.
There are 5 reasons you should ALWAYS hand out a bill.
- 1
-
You Break it You Bought it.
When you sit down to fix a problem that presented as a simple one you are creating a contract. Not a legal contract, but a social one. The computer owner is trusting their computer with you. It's their baby, and you're the doctor. So you sit down, and begin to fix a problem.
In the process, something else breaks. You fixed one thing, but something else goes awry. What's the best part? Neither you nor the user notice it is broken until a day later when they call you to blame you for breaking something else.
"I thought you were going to fix it." They complain.
This is the primary reason you charge money to fix something. You break it, you bought it. The user / owner will expect you to warranty your service even though THEY received all the value of your time, and you received nothing in exchange.
- 2
-
People don't respect things that are free.
I learned that quote from a man who runs a non-profit organization. Image that. A man who solicits donations for a living candidly told me "people don't respect things that are free." You know what? He's right.
Free advice. Free upgrade. Free entry. None are valued. Free advice is seldom wanted. Free upgrade was something you were going to get anyway. Free entry? The band playing tonight must not be any good.
People associate the value of service with the amount of money that is exchanged for it. How else do you think that lawyer can get away with charging $400 an hour? People naturally make the assumption that if it costs an arm and a leg, then it must be worth it.
So, if customers and friends will assume that the most expensive car is the best one, what will they assume of the free car? Do you want the heart surgeon who charges $500,000 per surgery or the one who works for beer to operate on your mother?
- 3
-
They will expect it forever.
In law, the concept of a precedent is vitally important. Judges and lawyers look to previous cases to decide what the interpretation of the law was because if a case was settled one way before, chances are, it will be settled that way again.
Gamblers playing craps look at the past behavior of the dice to, mistakenly, assume that the good luck will continue.
Users will figure if you fixed it once for free, you'll do it forever for free. There is no reason why they should respect the thousands of hours you have spent learning and researching the art of computer science. There is no reason that they should respect the certifications you hold. There is no reason that they should honor your abilities by paying your fees. Why? Because you did it for free. Once!
When they come back and you try to get fees, they will meet you with resistance in the form of guilt. "I thought we were friends" they cry. "You didn't charge me anything last time." They argue.
Setup the expectation that they are going to pay (or barter) from the onset. Demand the respect that you deserve. Make sure they understand you are a professional. After all, that is the difference between a professional and an amateur. Professionals get compensated for their skills.
- 4
-
The demands will only grow with time.
Give them an inch, and they will take you through three operating system upgrades, two virus infections, and a crashed hard drive. Once you've set the precedent and created the expectation that you are their knight in shining armor, they will begin to call you for everything. They will suck up your time and resources. They will not be grateful. They will involve you in 30 minute hypothetical conversations then disagree with your expertise.
- 5
-
It Weakens Your Backbone
Working for free is not only unprofitable, it weakens your constitution as a professional consultant. For many consultants, asking for money is difficult. They email out a silent invoice after the fact and hope they get paid. This practice can lead to unbalanced books, debt, and a going out of business sign. The simple fact is: if you don't ask for your money, you're not going to get paid. No one just hands out checks.
Setting up the expectation, especially when you fix a computer for the first time for a client, is vitally important in establishing boundaries that ensure you are paid in a timely fashion. Working for free, throwing out freebies, "comp"-ing your time hurts your ability to ask for the sale. It hurts your credibility because the client will assume that if you're not charging them for a given task, you didn't know what you were doing or you made mistakes.
It may give you butterflies, but ask for the money. Do it openly and notoriously. Your clients will take it as a sign of confidence.
Vote "Yes" for this article, then, click here to get more game changing insight at DrDamnit's EE Blog.
Get to know the author on Facebook or Experts Exchange.
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Comments
Expert Comment
Expert Comment
A nice and helpful article.
I voted Yes above
Expert Comment
Nice. Got my yes vote above.
Expert Comment
Great article, Dr D!
Another addition to your collection of 'yes' votes.
Expert Comment
It happens all the time. Even here in the Philippines...
Expert Comment
DrDamnit,
Great Article, enjoyed reading it - particularly the last line in your Point 5.
For newbies in consulting it is difficult, but after the first few attempts of blurting out a magic number, it does become easier.
So, for anyone new to consulting, be confident and be proud of your work and what you have to offer...
Cheers,
Mark Wills
Expert Comment
Great article.
I have found that even with family, if it costs them for your help, they are also more likely to listen and do the things you ask them to do (like don't run as administrator, update your anti-virus, etc.).
Expert Comment
You don't have to ask for money. You can ask for other things. Barter currency. For instance, I've tweaked a PC for a massage from a professional masseuse with the problematic PC. Sometimes, I get an IOU for something that I can 'spend' for something else.
When I do pro-bono work, I always make the expected outcome and future work very clear to the user. I also make the user responsibilities very clear. If the user doesn't uphold their end of the bargain, then I can decline future engagements.
I'm not sure I agree that "you break it = you bought it" applies in all cases. There are some instances where the PC is already broken and I'm the last resort.
As with my commercial clients, it comes down to expectations management.
Expert Comment
aikimark:
Point # 3, 4th paragraph, 1st sentence:
"Setup the expectation that they are going to pay (or barter) from the onset."
I did notice that this came well after the reference to "a pretty girl" ... but I'm not going to judge anyone's method of 'barter'.
Expert Comment
Interesting views - especially as all experts on experts-exchange work here for nothing, give free advice and consultancy, add comments to try and assist beyond what we interpret the question as asking etc. I understand the logic but it also flies in the face of our ethos at EE doesn't it?
Expert Comment
I voted "yes". Just because it is a very good article. I like the content and the style.
I'd say it is a bit strange to see such article on EE.
(I don't think that we work "for free" here, but we do not work for money).
Expert Comment
Keith,
I was chuckling over exactly the same thought. I think I've even given Dr D. free Access help recently. :)
But I think most of us are 'bartering' for something in a sense - the points, visibility, rankings, the game (my hu*****and refers to EE as my computer game). If there weren't some kind of gain (even just a good feeling) most of us wouldn't be here.
Expert Comment
That's a good point about bartering. I should mention I know a few IT guys who do the odd bit of barter work on the side. Especially for deals with mechanics or other tradesmen who charge as much per hour for their service as you would.
Expert Comment
In just three days since it was submitted, this article has obtained 16 yes votes and 431 views. I don't think we ever saw an article go wild like that.
Articles101,
EE Articles Admin
Expert Comment
I guess there are a lot of IT professionals that are (have been) taken advantage of by their friends and relatives.
Expert Comment
In any case most of us in EE contribute for knowledge because we actually solve real life problems... which I think is positive experiences for us...
:)
Expert Comment
Actually my good friends and relatives are fine. In fact, they tend not to bother me because they are good friends and don't want to take advantage. It's the casual friends or acquaintances that take advantage.
With EE I control when and where I participate as well as learn by teaching. With free work they always want it yesterday even if they aren't paying for it.
Expert Comment
The huge difference between EE and doing things for free is this: I can drop doing anything on EE without getting annoyed by people.
I get out of working on friends and relatives systems, thus:
Me: Can you bring me the system?
Them: *happily* of course?
Me: Then I can't work on it. I've been working for the past decade on systems that take at least two people to lift.
Expert Comment
Apropos: http://theoatmeal.com/comi
Nice work (voted Yes). My only comment is that the exception to all of this is the not-for-profit organization, although many of the same pitfalls apply. A buddy of mine who runs a non-profit told me that he found that asking people to do work for less than their normal rate never got any responses (e.g., looking for an accountant to do work for $15 an hour because that's all the money they had) -- but if they asked for it as a donation, they got people coming out of the woodwork to do it pro bono.
But in terms of "fixing" someone's computer... you're spot on. I won't even touch my wife's at this point.
ep
Expert Comment
how true.!
Expert Comment
Big Yes!
And so true.
Expert Comment
It's so true. Great article.
Expert Comment
Yes. Very very true!
Expert Comment
Right on - you wouldn't expect your freind who is a plumber to fix your pipes for free, so why do people think a "computer guy" should be any different. People are tapping our time and our knowledge.
Expert Comment
Most of my friends/family I have pay me in something... dinner, services, etc. I've about weeded all of the freebies out.
Expert Comment
DrDamnit,
Great article, hits on points that I think most Experts here have experienced....
Gets a YES from me...
Expert Comment
It happens to me!
Great Article...
Gets a Yes from me as well...
Expert Comment
Very nice article indeed.
Very truthful.
Expert Comment
Been there, done that. Very nice article...
Expert Comment
Awesome! Got my yes vote!
I do however agree with the probono work, a little time donated here and there makes you feel good. I prefer to find some much needed clinic that helps children, a non-profit that can't afford technical help with computers.
Expert Comment
>> they will begin to call you for everything
Addition:
even in the last day of the job, yes, today I resigned.
Oh dear, mornings are C code or php fixes, afternoons are for OOP; Java or .NET, evenings are for server stuff, Linux and 2008 or someone OS has got an infection or a hardware problems...for 2.5 years...
I mean noone ever works on their work, call me instantly.
Expert Comment
Guilty - I do this for friends and family all the time. While I have not had any of the problems stated above, and I do not do this as my business, these are good things to keep in mind, even if you do slip once in a while!
Thanks
Expert Comment
Expert Comment
YES
Expert Comment
A Yes from me.... I've done the bartering thing alot, but it comes back to burn you also... I have credit for about 25 more oil changes from the mechanic down the street who keeps calling me up because one of his machines caught another virus. He calls me up yet again, and again, and again....
I've learned to always charge for cash, even if you turn around and hand the cash right back to him.
Expert Comment
i do the 'odd' favour for people and i make it clear that I am going out of my way for them..I expect only two things..
to be offered a beer or a coffee etc if I am there out of business hours
and to be offered to be paid.
If someone says.."what do I own you?" - I may reply - 'dont worry about it - you cut my wife's hair free, or i do a lot of work in your office"
but if they dont offer, then after I finish - I simply ask them where I should send the invoice and if they want it made out to a company or as an individual.
beyond that ALL business work is always charged for - AND I put up my fees every 6 month - and no one has ever complained.
Expert Comment
Also - on the comments regard EE being a community of people working for free..
I put in a little spare time on here - typically while waiting for software to install or a patch to download etc - I dont consider this working for free as I have solved many client problems with help from articles on here that I have either charged the client for my time on here researching THEIR issue - or it has saved me time on a fixed rate contract - I understand that this only works thanks to the other members who have helped me.
This doesnt apply when my Mum gets a virus and I have to be diplomatic about her new hu*****and's "use" of inappropriate websites!
Expert Comment
Been there, done that, got scars.
Great article.
Expert Comment
Excellent advice, especially for people just starting out in the consulting field. Forwarded this to a few contacts.
Expert Comment
great indeed.
shoot.. gotto go.. neighbor calls again
Expert Comment
jejejej LOL The same history for almost all here... a friend.. a pretty face... (manilly the second in my case jejejeje)
but its true... all you say its true...
Expert Comment
YES! xD
and I agree with MidnightOnes comment!! I should use that hahaha
Forwarded,
Thanks,
Dan
Expert Comment
I don't mind helping out friends, but I'm in 100% agreement that you need to charge something. When I do work for a friend and they ask me how much I charge or how much I owe them, I honestly tell them the rate that I normally charge, and then put the ball in their court...."pay me however much it is worth to you." You'd be astonished at how large the check can be. But be prepared...we all have the cheapskate cousin who will pay you $20 and think he's doing you a favor (note to self for next time).
Expert Comment
I think if you do a lot of domestic work (as I do), you start to loose sight of your own expertise:
Customer says "...it just keeps re-booting...says something about "safe-mode" and "last-known-good"...I can't check my emails!!!..."
Now you know that 9 times out of 10 a simple chkdsk /r will sort this out. You've done it a thousand times. So you don't feel as if you are doing anything at all. But to the customer, you're a magician!
That's when errors of judgment tend to creep in, and you will maybe make a poor decision about presenting a bill.
If my central heating boiler breaks down, I have no idea how to begin to even think about how to put it right. To a heating engineer, it might be something as simple as replacing a thermocouple, but I will gladly pay him or her whatever they ask for, so long as I can stay warm in the winter.
I just try to remember how much time and effort it took for me to reach the point where I can mend broken computers quickly enough to make it commercially viable.
Great article, articulating several universal truths of computer repair.
Expert Comment
I have a LOT of relatives with computers. The line I HATE to hear is "maybe I'll let you fix my computer" like they are doing you a favor. Or, they will tell you that they can't afford to pay to get it fixed.
Heres what I do:
When they ask me to fix their computer, and tell me they can't afford to pay me, I tell them that I've got work around the house/shop that needs to be done, and that I will do the work in exchange for them doing some work for me.
I haven't had to fix too many computers for relatives!!!
Expert Comment
You said what I have been thinking for a long long time. People dispute me, even my mother saying "Help people that can't afford it"... HELL NO. Thank you for affirming my beliefs.
Expert Comment
I've found the perfect fix for this problem. Whenever anyone asks for computer aid, I tell them to bring it to my work, so "I can take a look at it, and quote a price to fix it". People don't like me for it - "But I bet it would be real easy for you to fix, can't you take a look at it?" - but I don't care. I value my free time, thank you very much.
Although I should admit that a few people ( a hand full of family members and friends) DO get free advice / check-ups, because they'll always return the favor in some way. Others, not so much.
Expert Comment
Amen! That is the most concise article I have read.
You need to tweek it for national publication that can be read by people outside the this field.
I have found it incredible disrepectful not be asked "can I give you something for your help?"
I'm still learning to be firm, I just got burned on a repair that took many hours to protect and recover the data and install the OS etc. etc. When the "friend" said he could not pay me anything for this claiming lack of money. But I'm not rolling in dough either. All I could say was "Ok, the first one is free, and indicated THAT was not going to happen again.
Expert Comment
Can nobody else see the flip side?
Five reasons you SHOULD fix a computer for free:
Five reasons you SHOULD fix a computer for free:
- 1
- Your Mom can't get emails from your daughter. It's YOUR MOM. It's YOUR DAUGHTER. You love them and want to help.
- 2
- Your wife will call in "The Nerd Folks®™ Inc." And the guy will replace the motherboard (because that is what he always does, regardless of the problem), and it will cost MORE THAN A WHOLE NEW COMPUTER. If you don't "take a look" yourself, then your wife (and by extension, you) are flushing money down the toilet.
- 3
- Your neighbor used her cooking skills to bake you a pie. Your church group called the Boy Scouts over to help after the fire. Your Mother wiped your tiny butt when it was covered in feces and kissed your knee when you scraped it. Your Father worked hard all of his life so that you would not go hungry or have to sleep in the rain AND he paid for the education that is now earning you six figures. DUDE! YOU OWE THEM. When they ask you to do something that is in your power to do... then you are a complete A-hole if you send them a bill.
- 4
- You see at a glance that the monitor is just unplugged. Make noises, grunt a few times, bang a wrench against something, say (to yourself, but loud enough to be heard) "oooo, I've never..., that's bad..., this might work,..." Plug it in and earn instant genius cred from somebody who will now owe you a big favor.
- 5
- The cute 21-year-old blond that lives in the apartment next door has been thinking of a way to get to meet you. She has a computer that needs to be fixed. If you send her a bill after what she did in exchange, then you are a raving lunatic.
Expert Comment
I don't think that we are at all discussing here being nice and helpful to people and family.
I do take care off all my family's computer needs and give remote support to the grandparents and are will to "discuss" and offer suggestions for what might be the problem with someones elses machine (This allows you to alway stay sharp).
I don't know what part of IT you work in, but it is very difficult to achive "six figures". It takes many years and much test taking which has a monetary cost out of pocket.
For the most part, it is due to our helpful and friendly nature and the fact that we love what we do is the problem.
You can not be that naive so as to think that people will not pay for something if they don't have too.
And I wonder, if you would make that same case for a skilled electrician or plummer?
This field is in constant flux and while I am in this field, I'm expected to make time at work AND at home to keep up with changes.
I do take care off all my family's computer needs and give remote support to the grandparents and are will to "discuss" and offer suggestions for what might be the problem with someones elses machine (This allows you to alway stay sharp).
I don't know what part of IT you work in, but it is very difficult to achive "six figures". It takes many years and much test taking which has a monetary cost out of pocket.
For the most part, it is due to our helpful and friendly nature and the fact that we love what we do is the problem.
You can not be that naive so as to think that people will not pay for something if they don't have too.
And I wonder, if you would make that same case for a skilled electrician or plummer?
This field is in constant flux and while I am in this field, I'm expected to make time at work AND at home to keep up with changes.
Expert Comment
Hey, I had to think hard to come up with five. It's easy to think of reasons not to help somebody...
Expert Comment
Dan, you're just saying what many of us were thinking (OK, at least me ;-).
H2IK said "I don't think that we are at all discussing here being nice and helpful to people and family."
Really? The article said "NEVER" (in all caps). That's a pretty strong word. When I read the article I kept thinking "But I do that all the time for my friends and family, and I don't have a problem with any of those bullet points"
and also:
"And I wonder, if you would make that same case for a skilled electrician or plummer [sic]?"
Actually, I *am* a skilled electrician, although IT consulting currently pays the bills (Electrical work paid the bills for a couple of summers in college, and I still have my tool belt to prove it ;-). And yes, I *do* help people I know for free (electrical or computer or any other skill I possess), if I happen to like them. *Everyone* has something that they can do/give in return - you just have to know them well enough. Since you mentioned plumbers, I also fix my father-in-law's leaky plumbing (it *was* nice of him to pay for my wedding, our mattress, and our laundry equipment). Oh yeah, did I mention he's an MD? I've already saved a bundle on routine medical care (and I don't have to share any of that with predatory insurance companies- ie "You've seen a doctor more than once with a case of the sniffles. This identifies you as someone for whom the sniffles was a chronic pre-existing condition, and therefore we refuse to honor any claims whose symptoms include the sniffles")
More examples: I help out one of my buddies (who works odd jobs and never has any extra $$) with his computer problems, he helps me figure out that my wife's Jeep won't start is because the CKS sensor is dead (and replaces it for me), I figure out his fuel-cutoff switch in his truck is dead, he finds me a 4-person Jacuzzi for $300 (his cost), I help his neighbor mod his game console, his neighbor uses his woodshop equipment to cut out panels for my arcade cabinet, and round and round we go ;-). Best part is, Uncle Sam never sees a dime in taxes from all this good karma, and it's all above-board.
I guess what I'm saying is that if your goal is to acquire as much money as possible, then the article will probably be helpful. If your enjoyment of life does not depend on that, it might be wise to listen to Dan.
Cheers,
-Jon
H2IK said "I don't think that we are at all discussing here being nice and helpful to people and family."
Really? The article said "NEVER" (in all caps). That's a pretty strong word. When I read the article I kept thinking "But I do that all the time for my friends and family, and I don't have a problem with any of those bullet points"
and also:
"And I wonder, if you would make that same case for a skilled electrician or plummer [sic]?"
Actually, I *am* a skilled electrician, although IT consulting currently pays the bills (Electrical work paid the bills for a couple of summers in college, and I still have my tool belt to prove it ;-). And yes, I *do* help people I know for free (electrical or computer or any other skill I possess), if I happen to like them. *Everyone* has something that they can do/give in return - you just have to know them well enough. Since you mentioned plumbers, I also fix my father-in-law's leaky plumbing (it *was* nice of him to pay for my wedding, our mattress, and our laundry equipment). Oh yeah, did I mention he's an MD? I've already saved a bundle on routine medical care (and I don't have to share any of that with predatory insurance companies- ie "You've seen a doctor more than once with a case of the sniffles. This identifies you as someone for whom the sniffles was a chronic pre-existing condition, and therefore we refuse to honor any claims whose symptoms include the sniffles")
More examples: I help out one of my buddies (who works odd jobs and never has any extra $$) with his computer problems, he helps me figure out that my wife's Jeep won't start is because the CKS sensor is dead (and replaces it for me), I figure out his fuel-cutoff switch in his truck is dead, he finds me a 4-person Jacuzzi for $300 (his cost), I help his neighbor mod his game console, his neighbor uses his woodshop equipment to cut out panels for my arcade cabinet, and round and round we go ;-). Best part is, Uncle Sam never sees a dime in taxes from all this good karma, and it's all above-board.
I guess what I'm saying is that if your goal is to acquire as much money as possible, then the article will probably be helpful. If your enjoyment of life does not depend on that, it might be wise to listen to Dan.
Cheers,
-Jon
Expert Comment
Absolutely no offence intended, please.
I was only pointing out that a skilled laborer should desire some monetary recompense from time to time. It is great to save money with a barter system, but as they say that doesn't pay the bills.
I do agree that the NEVER is a bit stronger than it should be. But with the economy the way it is, every bit helps.
Even tech companies are tighting the belt, I have had my wages frozen for two years now, even though the cost of everything else has gone up. At this point, I figure a little more than +$2000 loss from the year before. I also have a disabled wife, an elderly mother and a little one to take care of with on most of this single income.
I am, truly sorry, if I can not always afford to be charitable, but this is only to make up for that loss. But when you only have a literal few dollar left till the next paycheck, anything helps.
And this is also coming out of the precious time that I spend with loved ones along with the charitable work that I try to fit in on the evenings and weekends. And studing for a certification to help my career.
Honestly, money does not matter that much to me. Never has. I would rather spend my time off-work with family and friends. But it does show a little respect to an least offer someone a little something for thier time so at least they can say; "No that's ok, I really didn't do much."
I was only pointing out that a skilled laborer should desire some monetary recompense from time to time. It is great to save money with a barter system, but as they say that doesn't pay the bills.
I do agree that the NEVER is a bit stronger than it should be. But with the economy the way it is, every bit helps.
Even tech companies are tighting the belt, I have had my wages frozen for two years now, even though the cost of everything else has gone up. At this point, I figure a little more than +$2000 loss from the year before. I also have a disabled wife, an elderly mother and a little one to take care of with on most of this single income.
I am, truly sorry, if I can not always afford to be charitable, but this is only to make up for that loss. But when you only have a literal few dollar left till the next paycheck, anything helps.
And this is also coming out of the precious time that I spend with loved ones along with the charitable work that I try to fit in on the evenings and weekends. And studing for a certification to help my career.
Honestly, money does not matter that much to me. Never has. I would rather spend my time off-work with family and friends. But it does show a little respect to an least offer someone a little something for thier time so at least they can say; "No that's ok, I really didn't do much."
Expert Comment
I agree the closest rels and friends for them it's usually a barter system or they buy me a case of beer. (Its tax free and I am going to buy it anyway). One of my neighbours is a retired plumber, he has helped me out (for free) a couple times. Another is a builder. And I'm hopeless with DIY. And so on.
But then I have a client (who pays) and we often have a beer together. I had to do a job for his wife (who runs a beauty salon), and when I finished I asked where I should send the bill. She said, "Oh I thought you were going to fix it for free, cause you and Joe are mates". THE HIDE OF HER! Anyway I used the reply that really fits. "I'd love to be able to go around and fix all my friends' computers cause I love it, but you know, my kids like to eat. So I do need to charge you. Is that OK?"
Cheers
Michael
But then I have a client (who pays) and we often have a beer together. I had to do a job for his wife (who runs a beauty salon), and when I finished I asked where I should send the bill. She said, "Oh I thought you were going to fix it for free, cause you and Joe are mates". THE HIDE OF HER! Anyway I used the reply that really fits. "I'd love to be able to go around and fix all my friends' computers cause I love it, but you know, my kids like to eat. So I do need to charge you. Is that OK?"
Cheers
Michael
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This is great but i beg to disagree with the critics and don't wan't agree with them at all.
If you read between the lines of the five points i think DrDamnit has statetd it clearly well, pliz read again and again.
If you read between the lines of the five points i think DrDamnit has statetd it clearly well, pliz read again and again.
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For keith_alabaster and pgnatyuk:
In EE we share knowledge which i bet you would agree with me that its best build through sharing.
We ain't giving anything for free,we are actually gaining and solving problems.
In EE we share knowledge which i bet you would agree with me that its best build through sharing.
We ain't giving anything for free,we are actually gaining and solving problems.
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Yup I completely agree. I have even been paid with a box of ice cream, while tasty I will now ask for money upfront. No matter how bad I feel about asking.
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Totally agree with this.
All people I know believe that if I have a degree in Computer Science I know everything about anything. From hardware to software and back again. And I definetelly don't.
But I felt compelled to try and help them. And I so got into Situation #1 :-(
LOVE this article. Hope I'll be have the power to ask to be payed :-)
All people I know believe that if I have a degree in Computer Science I know everything about anything. From hardware to software and back again. And I definetelly don't.
But I felt compelled to try and help them. And I so got into Situation #1 :-(
LOVE this article. Hope I'll be have the power to ask to be payed :-)
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Mostly I agree - but there are some people who genuinely cannot afford to have a problem fixed.
What about those?
What about those?
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Pay doesn't have to be money. It can be as simple as "feed my cat when I'm on vacation."
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I should have made it plainer - I was referring to disabled and/or partially sighted people!
I take your point though!
I take your point though!
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ARE YOU KIDDING ME??? FAMILY IS IN THIS BUCKET?
What the hell is wrong with some of you? It's YOUR FAMILY. Have we become so greedy that we feel that we need to charge our family?
As a society, pandering to this concept and including family in this conversation is sickening. DO UNTO OTHERS and when we reach the point that as professionals we are not willing to help our families with our expertise, that's the day I dont want to be part of this group. When I was young and broke my father in law spent many hours helping and teaching me how to work on cars and engines, etc...for that I have never forgotten. I take care of his entire home network down to his mouse so he doesnt have to worry about it. Not because I owe him, but because I CARE.
If I feel a family member is abusing me and my generosity, I feign ignorance and send them packing. So far, my younger sister falls into that group. I do that because when I tell her I can fix her computer and it will cost 50 bucks for parts, she whines about me not having the spare part and then goes and buys a piece of crap replacement laptop totally disregarding my advise. But everyone else can get help from me anytime anywhere.
It makes me sick to imagine you charging your grandmothers for this. Don't be angry when you arent in the will after they pass or they give everyone money and the family photos and you get their junky old 486.
What the hell is wrong with some of you? It's YOUR FAMILY. Have we become so greedy that we feel that we need to charge our family?
As a society, pandering to this concept and including family in this conversation is sickening. DO UNTO OTHERS and when we reach the point that as professionals we are not willing to help our families with our expertise, that's the day I dont want to be part of this group. When I was young and broke my father in law spent many hours helping and teaching me how to work on cars and engines, etc...for that I have never forgotten. I take care of his entire home network down to his mouse so he doesnt have to worry about it. Not because I owe him, but because I CARE.
If I feel a family member is abusing me and my generosity, I feign ignorance and send them packing. So far, my younger sister falls into that group. I do that because when I tell her I can fix her computer and it will cost 50 bucks for parts, she whines about me not having the spare part and then goes and buys a piece of crap replacement laptop totally disregarding my advise. But everyone else can get help from me anytime anywhere.
It makes me sick to imagine you charging your grandmothers for this. Don't be angry when you arent in the will after they pass or they give everyone money and the family photos and you get their junky old 486.
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One last comment before I start getting flamed...if you arent family, then I totally agree. Even my neighbor. Sometimes I take barter, but that's if I know you well.
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I'm the only geek in my family in three generations.
The problem with fixing family computers - other than the size of some families - it that it can be the ultimate time sink.
You "can't say no" because they're family, yet a lot of family members are expecting a problem fixed aren't cognizant of the time involved because it has no effect on them whatsoever that cleaning up the latest variant of the virus they've gotten (again) takes three hours. Or they have no backups despite being told to do them and now it's my job to find their pictures through a drive crash. Or they've been pirating software.
At least a business client knows the money clock is running and will often take the course of, "it's faster to just reload rather than clean up the mess".
If family is expecting me to help them move, I at least get pizza and a beer. Most freebie repairs don't even rise to that minimal level of reciprocation and appreciation.
The problem with fixing family computers - other than the size of some families - it that it can be the ultimate time sink.
You "can't say no" because they're family, yet a lot of family members are expecting a problem fixed aren't cognizant of the time involved because it has no effect on them whatsoever that cleaning up the latest variant of the virus they've gotten (again) takes three hours. Or they have no backups despite being told to do them and now it's my job to find their pictures through a drive crash. Or they've been pirating software.
At least a business client knows the money clock is running and will often take the course of, "it's faster to just reload rather than clean up the mess".
If family is expecting me to help them move, I at least get pizza and a beer. Most freebie repairs don't even rise to that minimal level of reciprocation and appreciation.
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I think the basic Article (if actually read) stands up to all of the frivolous 'anti' comments that are being posted.
No one (are far as I can tell) is suggesting that your 98 year old grandmother has to fork over any cash when you give her computer a tune-up.
My interpretation of the intent is to prevent the abuse of the family geek by that no-good brother-in-law or his obnoxious teen-aged kids (there's a joke in there somewhere for the humor impaired).
Granny gets a pass on all rules (as she should), but - if nothing else- the able bodied should be expected to repay IN SOME MANNER.
This has been explicitly described above - mow my lawn, chop up some firewood, do something! If I'm putting my time and talents into doing something for you, then you MUST reciprocate.
It appears as though a lot of phony "straw-men" arguments are being created by some folks who just want to be plain argumentative.
No one (are far as I can tell) is suggesting that your 98 year old grandmother has to fork over any cash when you give her computer a tune-up.
My interpretation of the intent is to prevent the abuse of the family geek by that no-good brother-in-law or his obnoxious teen-aged kids (there's a joke in there somewhere for the humor impaired).
Granny gets a pass on all rules (as she should), but - if nothing else- the able bodied should be expected to repay IN SOME MANNER.
This has been explicitly described above - mow my lawn, chop up some firewood, do something! If I'm putting my time and talents into doing something for you, then you MUST reciprocate.
It appears as though a lot of phony "straw-men" arguments are being created by some folks who just want to be plain argumentative.
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MidnightOne: - FWIW, I am agreeing with you.
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NEVER may be a strong word... I certainly won't charge Mom for the myriad of hours I spend cleaning up her computer from whatever...
And of course, most of the time whatever is simple -- I fix it -- big hero, yeah!
However, I completely agree with the sentiments. There have been times I've been with friends (or family) where something seemed simple/straightforward and I sat down and in the process I broke something. Then I spend the next few hours fixing what I broke and put the thing back the way I found it. At the end of it I'm frustrated -- they feel bad for having me on it for so long but I can't leave because I made the problem worse.
And you do become their IT guy at that point. If anything else breaks it may be related to what you did and even if it's not there's the expectation... and sometimes I'm just not in the mood.
Best not to get sucked in in the first place.
And of course, most of the time whatever is simple -- I fix it -- big hero, yeah!
However, I completely agree with the sentiments. There have been times I've been with friends (or family) where something seemed simple/straightforward and I sat down and in the process I broke something. Then I spend the next few hours fixing what I broke and put the thing back the way I found it. At the end of it I'm frustrated -- they feel bad for having me on it for so long but I can't leave because I made the problem worse.
And you do become their IT guy at that point. If anything else breaks it may be related to what you did and even if it's not there's the expectation... and sometimes I'm just not in the mood.
Best not to get sucked in in the first place.
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This is so true!!
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I would have to disagree with a lot of what is written, with the understanding of course that I have a different perspective. I'm fine with doing some things for free/barter.
When someone asks me to "take a look" at their computer, I establish some simple guidelines.
1 - Time frame. I value my free time so I inform people who ask me to look at their computer how long they can be without it. If they can not live for more than a week without it, then I direct them elsewhere. This is becasue their computer will wait until I've nothing better to do before looking at it and that usually means anywhere from 3-8 days before I'll touch it.
2 - Liability. I ensure that they know that until I look at it, I can't make any promises about what is wrong or what may or may not be broken. So if I find the worse, then I might not be able to offer up much more than my condolences and ideas for a replacement system/component/software.
3 - Expectations of service. I don't provide illegal copies of software, and I don't have free hardware hanging around my house. If someone is having video card issues, I let them know that if it isn't a simple driver issue, then they may be looking at buying a video card and no, I don't have a spare.
3a - Free to Fee. If I find a problem that requires more than 30 minutes of my time, a level of risk for the customer (for example - data recovery), or the purchase and replacing of parts I let the person know that I've done all that I can do as part of "taking a look" at it. If they want me to take it further, then I would require compensation or they can take it elsewhere if they prefer (or sometimes I'll direct them elsewhere if I decide its not worth the headache).
4 - Barter works when it is reasonable. A six pack of beer or coke is less than $10 (at least last time I checked). I barter, but it is important to be careful about the level what you accept as too little can undercut you.
The above is how I operate and it addresses just about every pitfall that the author describes with the big ones being how it addresses the "Broke n bought" and "Respect" items. It is clear that if something is broke, the burden is the customers and if they ask me to fix it, we enter a compensatory arrangement as I am then investing time and accepting the risk. Respect still comes as my framework for operating is clear and respectable. While I don't expect my friends who are mechanics or plumbers to fix my things for free, they are willing to give me an idea of what may be wrong. I view it as providing a similar service.
When someone asks me to "take a look" at their computer, I establish some simple guidelines.
1 - Time frame. I value my free time so I inform people who ask me to look at their computer how long they can be without it. If they can not live for more than a week without it, then I direct them elsewhere. This is becasue their computer will wait until I've nothing better to do before looking at it and that usually means anywhere from 3-8 days before I'll touch it.
2 - Liability. I ensure that they know that until I look at it, I can't make any promises about what is wrong or what may or may not be broken. So if I find the worse, then I might not be able to offer up much more than my condolences and ideas for a replacement system/component/software.
3 - Expectations of service. I don't provide illegal copies of software, and I don't have free hardware hanging around my house. If someone is having video card issues, I let them know that if it isn't a simple driver issue, then they may be looking at buying a video card and no, I don't have a spare.
3a - Free to Fee. If I find a problem that requires more than 30 minutes of my time, a level of risk for the customer (for example - data recovery), or the purchase and replacing of parts I let the person know that I've done all that I can do as part of "taking a look" at it. If they want me to take it further, then I would require compensation or they can take it elsewhere if they prefer (or sometimes I'll direct them elsewhere if I decide its not worth the headache).
4 - Barter works when it is reasonable. A six pack of beer or coke is less than $10 (at least last time I checked). I barter, but it is important to be careful about the level what you accept as too little can undercut you.
The above is how I operate and it addresses just about every pitfall that the author describes with the big ones being how it addresses the "Broke n bought" and "Respect" items. It is clear that if something is broke, the burden is the customers and if they ask me to fix it, we enter a compensatory arrangement as I am then investing time and accepting the risk. Respect still comes as my framework for operating is clear and respectable. While I don't expect my friends who are mechanics or plumbers to fix my things for free, they are willing to give me an idea of what may be wrong. I view it as providing a similar service.
Expert Comment
That's interesting Glorr.
Can you advise what words you use please? While I agree with the sentiments, I'm not sure I could word that to a friend or relative without offending. (esp. points 1 and 2)
Michael
p.s. By the way, a 6 pack of beer in Aust is nearly $20 !!
Can you advise what words you use please? While I agree with the sentiments, I'm not sure I could word that to a friend or relative without offending. (esp. points 1 and 2)
Michael
p.s. By the way, a 6 pack of beer in Aust is nearly $20 !!
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@ mikhael
Different people would have to handle how they say it different ways I suppose. Here is how the most recent exchange took place.
Friend: My son's computer is acting all crazy again. He says he has his anti-virus up to date, but it has been running so slow that it has been hard for him to him to do his college work and that he's worried because he says the hard drive is making a weird buzzing noise. Would you be able to take a look at it?
Me: Things have been a little hectic at work recently and my boys are starting up baseball season again, so things are a little tight after work. If he needs it quick, he might be better off taking it to <insert tech repair shop here>, otherwise if he can do without it for a week I can fit it in if you can drop it off.
Friend: I really appreciate it, I'll ....
Me: Remember, I can't make any promises. If it's making a noise like what you described, when I take a look it could very well turn out to be a hard drive or other device that is failing. If that's the case, then it is going to cost some money to repair and how much depends on what the problem is. If it looks like that, I'll let you know and then your choices are taking it to a local tech shop or I can do it for you. I'll give you an estimate on what it would cost for me to do it, as you might be able to get a better deal from a local tech shop.
Friend: Do you think it might be that bad?
Me: It could be, but I won't know for certain until I can take a look at it. Also, if it's bad enough, does your son have a recent back-up of his data? If not, you might want to have him do it before bringing it over.
I find that even though I take a week to just "look at it", if it is bad, people still opt to have me fix it more often than taking it to a local tech shop, even if I might give them a quote that is more than the local shop. The reasons are because I speak honestly with them and communicate what I found, be it minor or major.
Family can be a little tougher, but it is still important. My father asked me to install Office on his computer, and when I said sure, just give me the software, he asked if I had a copy I could install. Answering honestly I told him that I only bought a license for my computer, but that I could help him locate an affordable copy or that he might want to consider Open Office. He wasn't happy, but when one of my brothers asked me and my brother got a little stupid about it, my father heard me tell my brother that "I wouldn't ask him to steal for me, so I would appreciate the same respect in return." They apparently got over it since they still ask for my help.
Don't be intimidated. I believe that is what the author meant most with item #5.
Different people would have to handle how they say it different ways I suppose. Here is how the most recent exchange took place.
Friend: My son's computer is acting all crazy again. He says he has his anti-virus up to date, but it has been running so slow that it has been hard for him to him to do his college work and that he's worried because he says the hard drive is making a weird buzzing noise. Would you be able to take a look at it?
Me: Things have been a little hectic at work recently and my boys are starting up baseball season again, so things are a little tight after work. If he needs it quick, he might be better off taking it to <insert tech repair shop here>, otherwise if he can do without it for a week I can fit it in if you can drop it off.
Friend: I really appreciate it, I'll ....
Me: Remember, I can't make any promises. If it's making a noise like what you described, when I take a look it could very well turn out to be a hard drive or other device that is failing. If that's the case, then it is going to cost some money to repair and how much depends on what the problem is. If it looks like that, I'll let you know and then your choices are taking it to a local tech shop or I can do it for you. I'll give you an estimate on what it would cost for me to do it, as you might be able to get a better deal from a local tech shop.
Friend: Do you think it might be that bad?
Me: It could be, but I won't know for certain until I can take a look at it. Also, if it's bad enough, does your son have a recent back-up of his data? If not, you might want to have him do it before bringing it over.
I find that even though I take a week to just "look at it", if it is bad, people still opt to have me fix it more often than taking it to a local tech shop, even if I might give them a quote that is more than the local shop. The reasons are because I speak honestly with them and communicate what I found, be it minor or major.
Family can be a little tougher, but it is still important. My father asked me to install Office on his computer, and when I said sure, just give me the software, he asked if I had a copy I could install. Answering honestly I told him that I only bought a license for my computer, but that I could help him locate an affordable copy or that he might want to consider Open Office. He wasn't happy, but when one of my brothers asked me and my brother got a little stupid about it, my father heard me tell my brother that "I wouldn't ask him to steal for me, so I would appreciate the same respect in return." They apparently got over it since they still ask for my help.
Don't be intimidated. I believe that is what the author meant most with item #5.
Expert Comment
Hmmm Glorr.
Yep that dialogue is good.
re the author's point 5, I don't have a problem with that at all. I'm lucky that 90+ % of our clients are businesses, and therefore don't have a problem paying for the work. And with new clients we don't have silent invoices (existing clients maybe). We ask for a cheque at the end of the job and then follow up with a (paid) invoice.
It's the friends and relatives that I have a problem with. But as I said before "barter is good".
On a slightly diffrent point, (but related to the author's point 4) don't you hate when you give your best, honest advice (e.g. backing up, not running with admin privs, AV practices) and they completely ignore you!
Regards
Michael
Yep that dialogue is good.
re the author's point 5, I don't have a problem with that at all. I'm lucky that 90+ % of our clients are businesses, and therefore don't have a problem paying for the work. And with new clients we don't have silent invoices (existing clients maybe). We ask for a cheque at the end of the job and then follow up with a (paid) invoice.
It's the friends and relatives that I have a problem with. But as I said before "barter is good".
On a slightly diffrent point, (but related to the author's point 4) don't you hate when you give your best, honest advice (e.g. backing up, not running with admin privs, AV practices) and they completely ignore you!
Regards
Michael
Expert Comment
@mikhael
Possibly the only thing worse than the customer ignoring the advice is when I ignore it myself. :)
There have been a couple times where my experimenting caused my system to go down, only to then recall that I had fallen behind on my back-ups.
Possibly the only thing worse than the customer ignoring the advice is when I ignore it myself. :)
There have been a couple times where my experimenting caused my system to go down, only to then recall that I had fallen behind on my back-ups.
Expert Comment
hey there. i really appreciate ur sharing with us..i would like to go with u in some aspects as well as i would like to go with the user comments they shared their views and ideas with us.
thanxs all for sharing ur views and ideas on this article..pretty learned frm ur comments.
thanxs all for sharing ur views and ideas on this article..pretty learned frm ur comments.
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I liked it, thanks
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So, I posted this article on DZone.com and it became a DZone Big Link within 2 days. Pretty awesome!
(http://www.dzone.com/link
(http://www.dzone.com/link
Expert Comment
I fight with this daily. I have only been on my own for a few months. When I was an employee, and only worked on family or close friends computers. It was, scratch my back I scratch yours, or work for Beer. The first big hurdle was charging people that I would have just helped in the past.
Now I only help immediate family at no charge.
Now I only help immediate family at no charge.
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I love it! Nailed right on the head!
Yes, I still do fix a few computers for free -- on rare occasion (mom, friends who cannot afford help and actually understand the value of what I'm giving them, etc)....but for the most part no way!
Yes, I still do fix a few computers for free -- on rare occasion (mom, friends who cannot afford help and actually understand the value of what I'm giving them, etc)....but for the most part no way!
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Great Article.
Here's my Two-Cents:
Whenever anyone asks me to help them with their problem, or to do them a favor I reply something along these lines:
"Well, do ME a favor. Because I get a lot of this kind of requests, send me an email with the following details:
- Make, Model and revision number of your equipment
- Computer system
- CPU
- Amount of RAM
- RAM Speed
- Hard drive capacity
- Hard drive technology (SATA/PATA)
- Operating system
- Kernel Version
- Browsers installed, including Versions
- Free space available on C:\
- Size of C:\Windows and C:\Windows\System32 folders
- Color depth of Monitor
- Description of the Problem
- Print screens of the problem, or Photos of the system if you can't take print-screens.
- List the three times most likely for the problem to occur
- List the last 3 things you tried to do to fix the problem
- List the last 10 Applications installed
- List the last 10 Webpages visited
Thanks"
So, I do this because:
1 - Most will give up after the 3rd line of details.
2 - Most of the rest will give up after the 10th line of details
3 - Almost all will give up after the last two line of details.
Those that DO answer with the details are the lucky few.
To them, I reply something passive-aggressive along the lines of:
"Well, after analyzing your problem, I think I could probably fix it in about 2 to 3 hours (Rough estimate).
My base fee is 15€ an hour, charged per half-hour rounded up.
Please note that I am not responsible for lost Data, or damaged hardware (I know this point is obvious, but I have to put it in here, as I have had some people in the past who did not realize this.)
Of course you realize that now I have a son, time is very scarce at home, but normally I can get things done in about a week or so.
Cheers."
Thankfully, I do not make a living off favor-tech-support, so I can afford to reply in this manner.
Trust me... it saves a LOT of headaches in the future.
Here's my Two-Cents:
Whenever anyone asks me to help them with their problem, or to do them a favor I reply something along these lines:
"Well, do ME a favor. Because I get a lot of this kind of requests, send me an email with the following details:
- Make, Model and revision number of your equipment
- Computer system
- CPU
- Amount of RAM
- RAM Speed
- Hard drive capacity
- Hard drive technology (SATA/PATA)
- Operating system
- Kernel Version
- Browsers installed, including Versions
- Free space available on C:\
- Size of C:\Windows and C:\Windows\System32 folders
- Color depth of Monitor
- Description of the Problem
- Print screens of the problem, or Photos of the system if you can't take print-screens.
- List the three times most likely for the problem to occur
- List the last 3 things you tried to do to fix the problem
- List the last 10 Applications installed
- List the last 10 Webpages visited
Thanks"
So, I do this because:
1 - Most will give up after the 3rd line of details.
2 - Most of the rest will give up after the 10th line of details
3 - Almost all will give up after the last two line of details.
Those that DO answer with the details are the lucky few.
To them, I reply something passive-aggressive along the lines of:
"Well, after analyzing your problem, I think I could probably fix it in about 2 to 3 hours (Rough estimate).
My base fee is 15€ an hour, charged per half-hour rounded up.
Please note that I am not responsible for lost Data, or damaged hardware (I know this point is obvious, but I have to put it in here, as I have had some people in the past who did not realize this.)
Of course you realize that now I have a son, time is very scarce at home, but normally I can get things done in about a week or so.
Cheers."
Thankfully, I do not make a living off favor-tech-support, so I can afford to reply in this manner.
Trust me... it saves a LOT of headaches in the future.
Expert Comment
@tryerexp
I do the same thing. in fact for most "free-support" requests my list has gotten simpler because the requests that I get are from needy people that want something, but they are not sure what they want..... my first response is:
I can fix your problem but I need a detailed description of the error message and what exactly you were doing when it happened....
I need specific details.....
hello? is anyone there.... ??? (fast busy....)
usually I don't get a call back...!
I do the same thing. in fact for most "free-support" requests my list has gotten simpler because the requests that I get are from needy people that want something, but they are not sure what they want..... my first response is:
I can fix your problem but I need a detailed description of the error message and what exactly you were doing when it happened....
I need specific details.....
hello? is anyone there.... ??? (fast busy....)
usually I don't get a call back...!
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Big Yes Vote for Dr.Damnit
I once fixed a OS issue for my neighbor. I ended up repairing 5 laptops / 1 hard disk replacement (damaged HDD) / 1 POS installation and integration for his new store that he is starting blah blah.
4 laptops were for his wife (re-installed Windows XP) (:(()
When I did it the first time, my take was - hey this takes minimal intervention while i watch TV (installing OS).
Didnt think the same thing after POS system install / configuration / remote support through logmein.
Loved the comments on this post.
Thanks guys
I once fixed a OS issue for my neighbor. I ended up repairing 5 laptops / 1 hard disk replacement (damaged HDD) / 1 POS installation and integration for his new store that he is starting blah blah.
4 laptops were for his wife (re-installed Windows XP) (:(()
When I did it the first time, my take was - hey this takes minimal intervention while i watch TV (installing OS).
Didnt think the same thing after POS system install / configuration / remote support through logmein.
Loved the comments on this post.
Thanks guys
Expert Comment
Great insights! It really helped me.
@tryerexp, halejr1
Why mechanicals, doctors, lawyers can do it and not us?
I think that we should think like other proffessions.
@mikhael
~"Respect is the most valuable gift that a man can give to himself" Rob Roy?
It is tuff to earn respect from family & you do it
@glorr "4 - Barter works when it is reasonable. "
I'm thinking in estimate how much the tech center will charge them, then translate it in something that the one who asks, charges for, (optionally, apply an announced discount), then ask something similar in exchange. And just for friends or family.
Anyway, very helpful your approach
@DanRollins "The cute 21-year-old blond that lives in the apartment next door has been thinking of a way to get to meet you. "
In my opinion, this is improbable in most cases; if she wants to meet you, she'll do it. Actually, if you are not afraid to charge her, is most probable the she will see you as confident, and that is more attractive than be a "free repairer". As #5 "Your clients will take it as a sign of confidence."
But thanks, for putting me to reflect on this, seriously. It putted me on in self debugging mode.
Thanks to DrDamnit
@tryerexp, halejr1
Why mechanicals, doctors, lawyers can do it and not us?
I think that we should think like other proffessions.
@mikhael
~"Respect is the most valuable gift that a man can give to himself" Rob Roy?
It is tuff to earn respect from family & you do it
@glorr "4 - Barter works when it is reasonable. "
I'm thinking in estimate how much the tech center will charge them, then translate it in something that the one who asks, charges for, (optionally, apply an announced discount), then ask something similar in exchange. And just for friends or family.
Anyway, very helpful your approach
@DanRollins "The cute 21-year-old blond that lives in the apartment next door has been thinking of a way to get to meet you. "
In my opinion, this is improbable in most cases; if she wants to meet you, she'll do it. Actually, if you are not afraid to charge her, is most probable the she will see you as confident, and that is more attractive than be a "free repairer". As #5 "Your clients will take it as a sign of confidence."
But thanks, for putting me to reflect on this, seriously. It putted me on in self debugging mode.
Thanks to DrDamnit
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Hello.....
thx a lot. This is what xatlay happens with me.....gr8 Post........
thx a lot. This is what xatlay happens with me.....gr8 Post........
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Great article...I have had this happen as well.
Thank you for the post!
Thank you for the post!
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This is very true. Took many years to learn this.
Great post.
Great post.
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I do a lot of bartering, that is a simple way to get value from your work without giving people sticker shock.
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I agree.
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Awesome article DR Damnit!!
I have fallen into the trap once and this sure helps!!
A big YES! from me!
I have fallen into the trap once and this sure helps!!
A big YES! from me!
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Do you guys have a beer economy?
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Here you go !!
http://www.tooheysnew.com.
Tooheys New is one of our most popular beers!
http://www.tooheysnew.com.
Tooheys New is one of our most popular beers!
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mikhael,
Yeah, but outside of Oz, I am not so sure the commitment to the new economy is as prevalent / relevant / applicable.
Maybe that is a new Article altogether...
How many cases for a Windows Update ? How many for a .PST recovery ? How many to add a new Printer ? = 6 cases
How many cases to hide the trail of those secret sites that the missus would go ropable about ? = priceless (oops different ad)...
Yeah, but outside of Oz, I am not so sure the commitment to the new economy is as prevalent / relevant / applicable.
Maybe that is a new Article altogether...
How many cases for a Windows Update ? How many for a .PST recovery ? How many to add a new Printer ? = 6 cases
How many cases to hide the trail of those secret sites that the missus would go ropable about ? = priceless (oops different ad)...
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Have to agree with you Mark!! :) :)
I have to qualify though that I'm talking about with friends and fam...
Cheers (hic!)
Michael
I have to qualify though that I'm talking about with friends and fam...
Cheers (hic!)
Michael
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Some great points on "NEVER". I loved this article, but I automatically segmented out family and good friends. I would never think of charging family, and even have turned down offer for payment from good friends because friends help friends.
As to making the same case for other skilled workers, absolutely! Just because the help you can provide is skilled work instead of grunt work doesn't mean common decency should go out the window. I have friends whose brother is a chiropractor. He CHARGES his own family to adjust them! In my book that makes him a total jerk (especially considering his family is not in a position to afford chiropractic care). His "reason" is that he is "worth the money" and does not need to do anything for free.
The real problem -- and why I love this article -- is all the acquaintance or co-workers who seem to think you should fix their computer for free just because they can put your name with your face. Or people who (once you get through explaining what a Networked Systems Engineer does in very simple terms) say "Oh, you know I've been having a problem with my PC at home....."
As to making the same case for other skilled workers, absolutely! Just because the help you can provide is skilled work instead of grunt work doesn't mean common decency should go out the window. I have friends whose brother is a chiropractor. He CHARGES his own family to adjust them! In my book that makes him a total jerk (especially considering his family is not in a position to afford chiropractic care). His "reason" is that he is "worth the money" and does not need to do anything for free.
The real problem -- and why I love this article -- is all the acquaintance or co-workers who seem to think you should fix their computer for free just because they can put your name with your face. Or people who (once you get through explaining what a Networked Systems Engineer does in very simple terms) say "Oh, you know I've been having a problem with my PC at home....."
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I guess this article and its comments could easily turn into a successful and funny book! The subject is quite serious, though!
I must say I largely agree with mds-cos, although more about "family" than "good friends".
It's true that friends help friends, but "good" friends do not take advantage of "good" friends, by inviting them to dinner so as to ask them to fix their leaky pipe, their broken window pane, or... by the way, their computer!
The fact that to fix a computer you may not need a toolbox (and then you might!), or you need not change your clothes or get your hands dirty, does not mean that it's fun rather than work!
I think many "good" friends of ours should understand this concept. And if they do, I am sure many of us would willingly offer themselves to help them with their computer. But we deserve a little "respect" for our profession, even from our "best" friends.
As regards family, I would specify "close" family. Keep in mind that in certain countries the concept of "family" can easily become a very "extended" one.
However, I would never charge my father for helping him with his computer. NEVER!
I recently fixed my father in law's laptop. Naturally I didn't want any money, but he insisted on giving me some. You see, I don't think our problem is with family, but if you step out of that circle, you're heading for trouble...
I must say I largely agree with mds-cos, although more about "family" than "good friends".
It's true that friends help friends, but "good" friends do not take advantage of "good" friends, by inviting them to dinner so as to ask them to fix their leaky pipe, their broken window pane, or... by the way, their computer!
The fact that to fix a computer you may not need a toolbox (and then you might!), or you need not change your clothes or get your hands dirty, does not mean that it's fun rather than work!
I think many "good" friends of ours should understand this concept. And if they do, I am sure many of us would willingly offer themselves to help them with their computer. But we deserve a little "respect" for our profession, even from our "best" friends.
As regards family, I would specify "close" family. Keep in mind that in certain countries the concept of "family" can easily become a very "extended" one.
However, I would never charge my father for helping him with his computer. NEVER!
I recently fixed my father in law's laptop. Naturally I didn't want any money, but he insisted on giving me some. You see, I don't think our problem is with family, but if you step out of that circle, you're heading for trouble...
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I have a computer toolbox, it is called a thumbdrive and fits on my keychain
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YES indeed and thumbs up to this article!
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I have added this to my PC diagnostics bible, first page for terms of service agreement. Best darn article I have read in a long while, keep them coming EE.
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I'm still fixing my Grandmother's computer for free. Lord knows she's done much more to help me than I could ever repay.
That said, everyone else gets a bill, a lesson learned painfully, which if I had the luxury of reading this article 15 years ago, could have helped my bottom line tremendously.
This is not my first read, I just forgot to vote yes prior and wanted to compliment you on your work.
Regards,
Rod
That said, everyone else gets a bill, a lesson learned painfully, which if I had the luxury of reading this article 15 years ago, could have helped my bottom line tremendously.
This is not my first read, I just forgot to vote yes prior and wanted to compliment you on your work.
Regards,
Rod
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and you got it......that's true.. guys......
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>>I'm still fixing my Grandmother's computer for free. Lord knows she's done much more to help me than I could ever repay.
lol, lol , lol
The great answer is: it depends...
lol, lol , lol
The great answer is: it depends...
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Wouldn't that be "it Depends®" =oP
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No Grandma is 97 an in full control of her continence, but she does use a walker, and sometime that's Johnny Walker <grin>.
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I will be keeping a hardcopy of this article in my pocket and present it to potential leeches upon request to fix something for free....thanks
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Good points, and all true. Like everyone else, close friends and family are helped for free or for beer or whatnot....usually other people, friend of a friend or whoever, once they hear it will cost them, it's usually, "oh i'll think about it and get back with you"
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Absolutely, positively, true. An old proverb comes to mind "No Good Deed Goes Unpunished"
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I see both sides but the article to begin this has my best interest at heart - The cashflow because I do freebies or cut the costs for friends or "good customers" has me almost out of business. My very 1st customer now calls me to look at lights and other non IT things though he does give food items with his reduced invoice pay. I get food and his recommendation to mostly full fee paying customers. I soo need to toughen up cause when i do charge the full fee I sometimes think is outrageous - they pay it with no hesitation and recommend me to others. Checking with other IT (Shops & Businesses) I see I charge half or less anyways. Sometimes it less expensive to buy new kit but then inconvenience and data transfer or starting over cost lots from the big ComputerWorld shops too. Family and true friends or genuine needy i do not mind! Like he says - I get a kick from getting it going, being the hero etc. just now got a few that expect it !!
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I am giving you positive but you just discussed one side !!
I do agree with all reasons mentioned in article. To recognized me as a professional, I would look forward to do this. I think, its all depends on how much work effort required for the work and how hard and time consuming it is.
I dont think, getting paid is always necessary in the form of money. There are many other valuable returns you may get from the person you helped. Because everyone have their own telent and experties. Sometimes other form of return might not worth the help you did but sometimes it might be more than that. You can build this form of relationship and it is priceless but its worth to enjoy your life.
I do agree with all reasons mentioned in article. To recognized me as a professional, I would look forward to do this. I think, its all depends on how much work effort required for the work and how hard and time consuming it is.
I dont think, getting paid is always necessary in the form of money. There are many other valuable returns you may get from the person you helped. Because everyone have their own telent and experties. Sometimes other form of return might not worth the help you did but sometimes it might be more than that. You can build this form of relationship and it is priceless but its worth to enjoy your life.
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Took your advice, and showed my wife the article.
I bartered my way into a night of shameful bliss. Thanks DrD...
On EE, we are all striving for another ornate desire to be heard. We share expert's advice to basically show our abilities as an IT professional. Also we strive to improve our skills as an IT professional.
In economics, Good Will is an asset. This is the payment we recieve out of EE.
So, I feel that EE, may not provide monetary value, but other profitable returns, that mean more to us under-rated IT professionals.
I bartered my way into a night of shameful bliss. Thanks DrD...
On EE, we are all striving for another ornate desire to be heard. We share expert's advice to basically show our abilities as an IT professional. Also we strive to improve our skills as an IT professional.
In economics, Good Will is an asset. This is the payment we recieve out of EE.
So, I feel that EE, may not provide monetary value, but other profitable returns, that mean more to us under-rated IT professionals.
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Great article. It just opened my eyes. Thanks Dr Damnit. A big YES for that!
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YES. Good reading. Bullseye.
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Yes. So true. Funnily, I spent some time with family a couple weekends ago where I was once again looking at their computer to do what is now routine maintenance to ensure their Antivirus is up to date, drives defragmented, etc., which in and of itself is hilarious since I don't even do those things in my day job anymore. At least I tend to get paid in good meals!
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I generally do help people whom I know (as opposed to helping people I don't know here on EE), and those that I do know tend to be people who are grateful for help in times of need. I do stipulate that I don't make house calls, so they have to make the effort to bring the machine to me. This works out very well for relationships, because it does cost them time and effort, in return for my time and effort.
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Appropriate T-shirt to wear when facing such a request:
http://www.thinkgeek.com/t
http://www.thinkgeek.com/t
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meant to include an image of the T-shirts
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Kinda like it, but not sure it's always the case, besides what would happen to EE!
still voted yes though :-)
still voted yes though :-)
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Here's is a good comic on this same matter :) must read > Why It's Better To Pretend You Don't Know Anything About Computers
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My experience:
Installed once a free Memory Booster program.. seems to work ok, but after trial period expired, everything goes slowly and only more slowly... (because I does not payed any registration fee). Only way out was new harddisk and new installation of OS!
Installed once a free Memory Booster program.. seems to work ok, but after trial period expired, everything goes slowly and only more slowly... (because I does not payed any registration fee). Only way out was new harddisk and new installation of OS!
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Well thought out and expressed... I have been in IT for 13 years but in consulting business. I fix way too many computers for freinds, neighbors, pretty girl ;), families and my wife's boss and the list goes on... I do not really charge them anything or barter, since I never have I did set an expectation that it can be for free just as you stated.
I am trying to figure out a way to get out of that as had I charged say $50 per call I would honestly have made a few thousand dollars per year let alone that the work has to be done after hours.
Tough for a nice guy to turn people down after they think you will be there for them... I wish we can get advice for people who have not read this well written and find out how you can get out of it. ;)
keep up the good work.
I am trying to figure out a way to get out of that as had I charged say $50 per call I would honestly have made a few thousand dollars per year let alone that the work has to be done after hours.
Tough for a nice guy to turn people down after they think you will be there for them... I wish we can get advice for people who have not read this well written and find out how you can get out of it. ;)
keep up the good work.
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Sometimes us nice guys have to get down from our white horse and take off the shining armor. It is tough sometimes, but you will be grateful that some people quit asking for our "free" time. You aren't ever going to get out of fixing some people's stuff for free, but that doesn't mean you have to give it away to everyone who asks.
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as a guy said here before and i gonna quote his wise words because I think that is the key in the whole relationship:
As with my commercial clients, it comes down to expectations management.
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I stood in front of my mirror and said: Learn you idiot, will you? The man in the mirror shake his head left and right
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A Very Big Yes! in fact YES
this should be printed and given to every new pc bought....
well done
this should be printed and given to every new pc bought....
well done
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Oh, the pretty girl! I just found the huge exception! If a pretty girl asks you to fix her computer the answer (unless you are happily married) is yes, Yes, YES!!!!
Just be sure that you find plenty of reasons the pretty girl needs to be with you when you are fixing her computer ;-) hehehe....
Just be sure that you find plenty of reasons the pretty girl needs to be with you when you are fixing her computer ;-) hehehe....
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>Oh, the pretty girl! I just found the huge exception!
Make sure she at least thinks you are in her league, otherwise you are just another sucker for her to take advantage of, and not in a good way.
Of course, I have never been taken advantage of by pretty girl. =o)
Make sure she at least thinks you are in her league, otherwise you are just another sucker for her to take advantage of, and not in a good way.
Of course, I have never been taken advantage of by pretty girl. =o)
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Could not agree more!!
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OMG, Can someone say AMEN!
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This is very helpful and such a great article. Thanks for taking the time to put this together.
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I haven't had a chance to read all the comments yet, so I apologize if this has been pointed out already -- but doesn't the argument of this article sort of contradict the spirit of EE? I mean, the geniuses who are on here, helping people (like me) half a world away, do not even get a beer, or remuneration of any serious kind. It's an "I've helped enough people to fill a small auditorium, and probably saved a few jobs today and all I got was this lousy t-shirt" kind of thing (I think this is an American joke -- I am not trying to denigrate EE shirts). Is it the $15 membership? I doubt it.
I think that every situation needs to be evaluated individually, and the determination to help or pass made on a case-by-case basis. That's my take, anyway.
Andrey
I think that every situation needs to be evaluated individually, and the determination to help or pass made on a case-by-case basis. That's my take, anyway.
Andrey
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We do get something out of it.
Think of it this way. All most lei computer users know is, does it work or not.
We are helping other ITs overcome the, "it doesn't work and you need to do something about it". I for one have asked a few of those questions that EE helped me on, and I didn't have time to research a solution to the problem.
IT is simply an underrated profession because no-one really understands all the facets to managing an IT infrastructure, unless they have been put on that podium.
Think of it this way. All most lei computer users know is, does it work or not.
We are helping other ITs overcome the, "it doesn't work and you need to do something about it". I for one have asked a few of those questions that EE helped me on, and I didn't have time to research a solution to the problem.
IT is simply an underrated profession because no-one really understands all the facets to managing an IT infrastructure, unless they have been put on that podium.
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There is a bit of difference between EE and actually fixing a computer though. On EE we offer suggestions on the course that a person can take to resolve a problem. Ultimately it is up to the person to accept the suggestion or not. So we don't end up "owning" every problem that comes along after. Nor do we end up getting blamed for each and every problem that comes after because we were the "last person to touch it".
I also find that (generally) people on EE are tech-savvy to begin with. So their expectations are far different to begin with than the user who has no clue how to clean a virus off their computer (or better yet how to not get one in the first place!)
I also find that (generally) people on EE are tech-savvy to begin with. So their expectations are far different to begin with than the user who has no clue how to clean a virus off their computer (or better yet how to not get one in the first place!)
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Ehh... I help my Mom and Dad for free just because they're computer illiterate and since even the simplest things I do amaze them they take every word I say as the word of god.
Plus...They're my parents. They gave up a lot raising 9 kids and are still broke so it'd be kind of a dick move.
Other people though this article really made sense for... I ALWAYS help everyone out. And it's completely accurate they get really aggravated after you've helped them out once if you don't drop what you're doing and help them right away. And for a free service that's just unacceptable. I'm going to try and adopt this article for all my friends and at least barter for something I want.
Plus...They're my parents. They gave up a lot raising 9 kids and are still broke so it'd be kind of a dick move.
Other people though this article really made sense for... I ALWAYS help everyone out. And it's completely accurate they get really aggravated after you've helped them out once if you don't drop what you're doing and help them right away. And for a free service that's just unacceptable. I'm going to try and adopt this article for all my friends and at least barter for something I want.
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I agree! Assuming this was sent due to my volunteer work for our church and now I'm stuck, but I see it a bit different. Like I wrote in a blog today, it God's way of telling me I need a cluster. I'm looking for cluster information, from OS to render and don't mind paying for it. My biggest problem at this point is finding somebody with answers. Tried IT consultants in SW Florida and can not find someone with experience. I hear a lot, '...wow, sounds net but we have never done that'. Got emails to MS, Linux, and another group in Tampa, but nothing yet.
So if there is any body out there that about Windows HPC and Linux clustering and would like to consult, or knows who to call, let me know; this is a paying gig. This does prompt me to say this at my question.
Thank you
So if there is any body out there that about Windows HPC and Linux clustering and would like to consult, or knows who to call, let me know; this is a paying gig. This does prompt me to say this at my question.
Thank you
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Nothing totally are free. When we help any body even if there is no relationship,
We do help hoping "Allah" God , will be happy from us and because
Allah said that if we help any body on this word he will help us on the final word
And he will give us a paradise.
So , we have to put on our mind that every thing we do we do it jut for Allah. And
Believe me you will never lose any deal with Allah.
We do help hoping "Allah" God , will be happy from us and because
Allah said that if we help any body on this word he will help us on the final word
And he will give us a paradise.
So , we have to put on our mind that every thing we do we do it jut for Allah. And
Believe me you will never lose any deal with Allah.
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Yes yes yes! I agree with you and I had gone throught that in the past. I was working as a unified comms consultant although I have software engineering and windows admin skills as well. Once I fixed an issue on customer's server while I was "just passing by". Obviously I couldn't charge a fee as I am a unified comms guy. So I got a BIG THANK YOU! Somehow whenever I went to the same business to discuss their networking matters, they started bringing one notebook after another. It even went as far as asking to fix their legacy PBX sold & maintined by another company, which was failing to identify the issue! At the end I started rejecting that customer to avoid working for free. So I worked for free, and lost one of my clients. Weird eh?
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Totally disagree with this article if we're talking about people outside a business context. Where I come from, everyone has skills, and no one knows everything. We all need help with something and part of being friends is helping, particularly when I can contribute a unique skill. If there is some monetary cost invovled I think it's right for pass those costs on. For instance, I would never buy anyone any hardware, but I'll install it for free. When my backhoe owning neighbor does some digging for me, I buy the fuel, but I don't pay him anything - not even a maintenance percentage.
As for weakening my backbone.... Resolving computer issues (especially one that I knew so little about that I caused it myself while "fixing" something) teaches me things I didn't know before and makes me a stronger. more experienced tech, not a weaker one. Charging my neighbor for setting up his wireless network does not make me a more valuable consultant.
As for getting in over your head and breaking something else - if somebody asks you to help, and you don't really know how, you'd be smart to decline in the first place. But if I jump in and break something that wasn't broken when I got there, that's on me. Does it suck? Oh yeah. But what's right is right and people will respect you for that. Which brings me to my last point...
Don't fix somebody's computer who doesn't respect you. I mean, seriously... If somebody breaks your chops all the time and doesn't really respect your friendship, when they ask for help, tell them to get bent.
/opinion
As for weakening my backbone.... Resolving computer issues (especially one that I knew so little about that I caused it myself while "fixing" something) teaches me things I didn't know before and makes me a stronger. more experienced tech, not a weaker one. Charging my neighbor for setting up his wireless network does not make me a more valuable consultant.
As for getting in over your head and breaking something else - if somebody asks you to help, and you don't really know how, you'd be smart to decline in the first place. But if I jump in and break something that wasn't broken when I got there, that's on me. Does it suck? Oh yeah. But what's right is right and people will respect you for that. Which brings me to my last point...
Don't fix somebody's computer who doesn't respect you. I mean, seriously... If somebody breaks your chops all the time and doesn't really respect your friendship, when they ask for help, tell them to get bent.
/opinion
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Some things are taken for granted, but some things aren't as obvious to some.
Unless you're a total dick you aren't going to charge your parents, siblings and close friends for advice and a few hours of labor, that is what guilt is for. This is a general rule and there are obviously some extenuating circumstances sometimes where that would not be the case, but anyway...
Now, in-laws, co-workers, neighbors and the rest of the great unwashed masses are another story entirely. No cash, ass or grass, no fixey.
Unless you're a total dick you aren't going to charge your parents, siblings and close friends for advice and a few hours of labor, that is what guilt is for. This is a general rule and there are obviously some extenuating circumstances sometimes where that would not be the case, but anyway...
Now, in-laws, co-workers, neighbors and the rest of the great unwashed masses are another story entirely. No cash, ass or grass, no fixey.
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For me, the hardest things to charge for are the subsequent phone calls. The "do you know why this is doing that?" type of support that normally comes from clients that happily pay you when you are on site. It is very hard to quantify and bill for a 30 second call here or a 5 minute call there especially when it doesn't require a physical visit.
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It is like this old joke.
A tech guy works for a company for a few decades then gets laid off due to downsizing. One day the system goes down completely and no one knows why so they call him back to fix it. He pokes around for a few minutes, pulls a piece of chalk out of his pocket and marks a part inside the machine with an X. He goes to his old boss and and says "Just replace the part I marked" and hands him the piece of chalk, then says "That will be $10,000". The boss is shocked "Ten thousand! What the ...? Why?". The tech says "1 piece of chalk cost 25 cents, knowing where to put the X cost $9,999.75 .... or I can just wipe the X off and let you continue searching".
A tech guy works for a company for a few decades then gets laid off due to downsizing. One day the system goes down completely and no one knows why so they call him back to fix it. He pokes around for a few minutes, pulls a piece of chalk out of his pocket and marks a part inside the machine with an X. He goes to his old boss and and says "Just replace the part I marked" and hands him the piece of chalk, then says "That will be $10,000". The boss is shocked "Ten thousand! What the ...? Why?". The tech says "1 piece of chalk cost 25 cents, knowing where to put the X cost $9,999.75 .... or I can just wipe the X off and let you continue searching".
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How absolutely true!
You must have been listening over my shoulder as I was pontificating to a young IT graduate (employed in the government sector) whom was in the habit of doing things for free for members of our service club. Many were business people that could and would pay for these services but would take advantage of a perceived deal. Well what I had to say to him fell on deaf ears as he delighted in the compliments and ego massage that he was getting.
Well it all came to a head when he got involved in situation Number 1 "You break it you bought it". The server he was working on went down and it took almost three days to recover. It was on day one he decided to bail as he had to be at his regular job and we were called in to bring everything back on line.
It didn't end there for this young fellow, as the business owner now wanted his pound of flesh and pursued legal action. This legal action extended as far as this young fellow's employer and caused him all sorts of grief for about a year and a half. The law suit wasn't successful but the issues impacted him personally, professionally and financially.
This was a lesson learned the hard way.
You must have been listening over my shoulder as I was pontificating to a young IT graduate (employed in the government sector) whom was in the habit of doing things for free for members of our service club. Many were business people that could and would pay for these services but would take advantage of a perceived deal. Well what I had to say to him fell on deaf ears as he delighted in the compliments and ego massage that he was getting.
Well it all came to a head when he got involved in situation Number 1 "You break it you bought it". The server he was working on went down and it took almost three days to recover. It was on day one he decided to bail as he had to be at his regular job and we were called in to bring everything back on line.
It didn't end there for this young fellow, as the business owner now wanted his pound of flesh and pursued legal action. This legal action extended as far as this young fellow's employer and caused him all sorts of grief for about a year and a half. The law suit wasn't successful but the issues impacted him personally, professionally and financially.
This was a lesson learned the hard way.
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NEVER SAY NEVER
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WOW! This is an awesome article. I have done many free things for fam and friends. What they say is true, "you fix one thing and onther breaks", Also you think it is an easy 20 mintues to get something done and 4 hours later you finally finish.
GREAT ARTICLE
GREAT ARTICLE
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Excelent Article!
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Excellent!, been there done that. I have a rule now that I just don't help peoples personal computer problems. A bottomless pit indeed.
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Yes, THis is a Good Article, One Sholud Avoid This, Thanks A Lot.....
katrina-kaif-136a.jpg
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adding to the many "Yes" votes you have mine as well, you have echoed what many people have told me, including my mother. So if it's ok with you, I'd like to link this article on my website and use it as part of my email signature. I think people should recognise that one act of kindness is not a token for pro bono publico. IT is our chosen career path which means we expect money even when we don't ask for it - at least let us decline an offer, don't just withold it.
Thanks again.
Thanks again.
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Great article! ....now if only i can live by it.
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I was actually one of those guys that took advantage of a barter in trade that had a pretty girl involved...and ALL good!!! It wasn't exactly, I do this and you do that..."that" was drawn out from friendly conversation, some wine, more conversation, more wine....and then...
Anyway...knowledge is power.
GREAT article and lots of takes from other experts. Reading this, put me in check as over the past years, I've succumbed to the "economy" and how it sucks and have been giving many friends free advice, service, etc...to help them out. Some of this has panned out to paying opportunities, but more likely, I have many favors owed to me. I've been a consultant for almost 25 years, great times were had when the economy wasn't in the slump, unlike now in 2010. Well, looks like the old dog has to get back on track.
Anyway...knowledge is power.
GREAT article and lots of takes from other experts. Reading this, put me in check as over the past years, I've succumbed to the "economy" and how it sucks and have been giving many friends free advice, service, etc...to help them out. Some of this has panned out to paying opportunities, but more likely, I have many favors owed to me. I've been a consultant for almost 25 years, great times were had when the economy wasn't in the slump, unlike now in 2010. Well, looks like the old dog has to get back on track.
Expert Comment
a big YEEEEEEEES for your article man
you are describing my live , i always have this problem with friends and Colleagues
god bless you
you are describing my live , i always have this problem with friends and Colleagues
god bless you
Expert Comment
OMG---The deacon at my church has me in this exact position 10 mos after you wrote this article. I told him i would charge him for the memory he might need and update/tweak things for free.
He was given an old win XP HP laptop with 256 MBs of ram.
1st---1GB more mem reqrd.
2nd---OS was put in by a 4th party and was "system builder oem, 'PRE' SP1 Beta version".
3rd---it was fat 32 FS. Changed to ntfs.
After I did that, it required Activation that I am unable to overcome. His regular Church PC guy told him to buy a new one. So did I. he insisted. i told him this was normally $135 job, PLUS the RAM COST, but I would NOT charge him for the labor. I thought maybe 3-4 hours
Now he needs and wants Wireless on a NON-wireless laptop,
1---Wireless
2---MS Office
3---Internet Security
4---much other utility SW
Anyways, Great article. Read my question regarding the ACTIVATION ISSUE under OS + Activation + Win XP in about a half hour.
He was given an old win XP HP laptop with 256 MBs of ram.
1st---1GB more mem reqrd.
2nd---OS was put in by a 4th party and was "system builder oem, 'PRE' SP1 Beta version".
3rd---it was fat 32 FS. Changed to ntfs.
After I did that, it required Activation that I am unable to overcome. His regular Church PC guy told him to buy a new one. So did I. he insisted. i told him this was normally $135 job, PLUS the RAM COST, but I would NOT charge him for the labor. I thought maybe 3-4 hours
Now he needs and wants Wireless on a NON-wireless laptop,
1---Wireless
2---MS Office
3---Internet Security
4---much other utility SW
Anyways, Great article. Read my question regarding the ACTIVATION ISSUE under OS + Activation + Win XP in about a half hour.
Expert Comment
OMG---The deacon at my church has me in this exact position 10 mos after you wrote this article. I told him i would charge him for the memory he might need and update/tweak things for free.
He was given an old win XP HP laptop with 256 MBs of ram.
1st---1GB more mem reqrd.
2nd---OS was put in by a 4th party and was "system builder oem, 'PRE' SP1 Beta version".
3rd---it was fat 32 FS. Changed to ntfs.
After I did that, it required Activation that I am unable to overcome. His regular Church PC guy told him to buy a new one. So did I. he insisted. i told him this was normally $135 job, PLUS the RAM COST, but I would NOT charge him for the labor. I thought maybe 3-4 hours
Now he needs and wants Wireless on a NON-wireless laptop,
1---Wireless
2---MS Office
3---Internet Security
4---much other utility SW
Anyways, Great article. Read my question regarding the ACTIVATION ISSUE under OS + Activation + Win XP in about a half hour.
He was given an old win XP HP laptop with 256 MBs of ram.
1st---1GB more mem reqrd.
2nd---OS was put in by a 4th party and was "system builder oem, 'PRE' SP1 Beta version".
3rd---it was fat 32 FS. Changed to ntfs.
After I did that, it required Activation that I am unable to overcome. His regular Church PC guy told him to buy a new one. So did I. he insisted. i told him this was normally $135 job, PLUS the RAM COST, but I would NOT charge him for the labor. I thought maybe 3-4 hours
Now he needs and wants Wireless on a NON-wireless laptop,
1---Wireless
2---MS Office
3---Internet Security
4---much other utility SW
Anyways, Great article. Read my question regarding the ACTIVATION ISSUE under OS + Activation + Win XP in about a half hour.
Expert Comment
FYI,
I stop doing things for free and now I look like a greedy IT guy for money. Some colleagues are afraid to call for advice, fear that I might I charge them for the call. I kinda handle the situation wrong tho. I was doing IT work for pennies, just so my inner circle can get a break. I would charge $20 for 3 hrs of work. Give everything at cost, even if I got superb deal on parts. So then I abruptly stop when I realized my funds was low, parts was sold at cost(so my inventory depleted fast with no way to offset the cost, and I did not have any profit to show for all my work. Quickly, started being treated llke an outcast from my own inner circle. They couldn't understand that I paid for my certifications, obtained my college degree, learned my field, and now should reap some rewards.(some did) I wasn't milkin them for money, I revealed the actual cost. (parts, service, and labor). I, still was 10% - 15% below the competitive market in my area. Nevertheless, I lost half my client-tale because I'm charging a competitive rate. Now some rely on Geek Squad to do their work. FUNNY! With that said, I do have some coming back choosing the lessor of the 2 evils. But I had to WAKE UP to realize what I was doing to myself.
Don't start it and you will not have to deal with it. 'Lesson Learned'
Ituser
I stop doing things for free and now I look like a greedy IT guy for money. Some colleagues are afraid to call for advice, fear that I might I charge them for the call. I kinda handle the situation wrong tho. I was doing IT work for pennies, just so my inner circle can get a break. I would charge $20 for 3 hrs of work. Give everything at cost, even if I got superb deal on parts. So then I abruptly stop when I realized my funds was low, parts was sold at cost(so my inventory depleted fast with no way to offset the cost, and I did not have any profit to show for all my work. Quickly, started being treated llke an outcast from my own inner circle. They couldn't understand that I paid for my certifications, obtained my college degree, learned my field, and now should reap some rewards.(some did) I wasn't milkin them for money, I revealed the actual cost. (parts, service, and labor). I, still was 10% - 15% below the competitive market in my area. Nevertheless, I lost half my client-tale because I'm charging a competitive rate. Now some rely on Geek Squad to do their work. FUNNY! With that said, I do have some coming back choosing the lessor of the 2 evils. But I had to WAKE UP to realize what I was doing to myself.
Don't start it and you will not have to deal with it. 'Lesson Learned'
Ituser
Expert Comment
Very nice tutorial!
Expert Comment
Really nice, liked it!
Expert Comment
Loved the article even though i skimmed through! IA100%
Expert Comment
i agree 110% i am a ASE mechanic and work for the IT dept for my company. so i get the double whammy. i did a favor here and there and man that blew right up in my face with countless people going why do you want to charge me now? you changed i say BS ASE certifications and the hundreds of hours i spent researching computer science wasn't free for me so why would it be free for any one else. i only wish i thought about that before i started doing favors. great article!
Expert Comment
It was a great article followed by some excellent comments.
The only thing I would add is that if my daughter would ask me to fix her computer and there was nothing I could think of to ask her to do for me, I told her she had to sit down in the basement office with me for as long as it took for me to fix the PC.
I think she at least began to understand the time involved, and sometimes the "problem" she had brought forward maybe wasn't that big a deal after all and didn't need to be fixed.
The only thing I would add is that if my daughter would ask me to fix her computer and there was nothing I could think of to ask her to do for me, I told her she had to sit down in the basement office with me for as long as it took for me to fix the PC.
I think she at least began to understand the time involved, and sometimes the "problem" she had brought forward maybe wasn't that big a deal after all and didn't need to be fixed.
Expert Comment
Really Greate One!!!!
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Brings back vivid memories! My girlfriends brother asked me to create a three page static webpage for him which I did quite happily for free. Over the following months oh how it has grown.....
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Nicely put article! Bravo! Pay up people!
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Good Article...!
Cheers,
Prem
Cheers,
Prem
Expert Comment
About time a frank article on computer repair, nice article, been thinking about the entire ' fix for free ' concept that has crept into my weekly routine, puts a few doubts I've had to rest.
Thanks,
Niall Kelly
--
Thanks,
Niall Kelly
--
Expert Comment
Yes ! Nice article.
I will fix only my girl friend computer in free of cost.
I will fix only my girl friend computer in free of cost.
Expert Comment
Great article!
I have experienced this with both a family member and a neighbor. Instead of getting the "hi, how are you today" from the neighbor, I get the "umm, I hate to bother you, BUT,... could you come look at this for a second (an hour, is what he really means!)".
In fixing a network connection issue, his email software didn't like those changes. So the network was running fine, but now the email was broke, which then became "my problem"!
Thank you,
Kevin
I have experienced this with both a family member and a neighbor. Instead of getting the "hi, how are you today" from the neighbor, I get the "umm, I hate to bother you, BUT,... could you come look at this for a second (an hour, is what he really means!)".
In fixing a network connection issue, his email software didn't like those changes. So the network was running fine, but now the email was broke, which then became "my problem"!
Thank you,
Kevin
Expert Comment
That YouTube video isn't funny, it's a documentary! :)
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I have never had to deal with that with a creepy bear, creepy humans sure, no bears yet. Otherwise it is a documentary.
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The video is AWESOME - that same situation has happened to me at least 5 times in the past!!!
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Excellent video!!!!
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i have to agree with you free or cheap are not the way forward even though our good nature to help is to be blamed. an excellent article which is a eye opener.
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You are absolutely right.
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disagree, I've fixed many comps for free, trouble free.
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you are right ;)
Expert Comment
Great Article...It gives a lot to think about....
I would like to translate this article and put it on my blog, obviosly citing you as the author...please tell me if I'm allowed to..
Isaac.-
I would like to translate this article and put it on my blog, obviosly citing you as the author...please tell me if I'm allowed to..
Isaac.-
Expert Comment
Ow yeah, tell me about it. My father's PC is sitting in my office for the umpteenth time, won't boot anymore.
Well yeah, I work with computers, but more precisely I work with SQL Server, BI, .NET... (of course he hasn't got a clue what that means). I also know my way around the OS and hardware a bit. But does that mean I enjoy spending my free time cursing because that darn box won't boot? No way I do! I wouldn't even enjoy it if it was my own box...
Oh well, that's life I guess: sometimes you know you should say "no" but you just can't...
You work with computers, it should be an easy fix!
Well yeah, I work with computers, but more precisely I work with SQL Server, BI, .NET... (of course he hasn't got a clue what that means). I also know my way around the OS and hardware a bit. But does that mean I enjoy spending my free time cursing because that darn box won't boot? No way I do! I wouldn't even enjoy it if it was my own box...
Oh well, that's life I guess: sometimes you know you should say "no" but you just can't...
Expert Comment
my favorite is the total rebuild that takes hours, updates, reinstalling, etc they they bring a 6-pack of beer...and want to SPLIT it with ya...
i do not work on them for free- and not for beer. I can BUY beer with the money if i choose.
i do not work on them for free- and not for beer. I can BUY beer with the money if i choose.
Expert Comment
... and it's usually some crappy beer too.
Expert Comment
yep- I rebuilt a PC for a friends mom- she bought me a 12 pack of "Milwaukees Best" (worst beer ever- Blatz is better)
Now those same "friends" bring their PC to dorksquad and pay em 200 bucks...funny, how my time of doing the exact same thing is worth nothing, but bringing it in and paying twice what i would ask is somehow OK.
whatever.
Now those same "friends" bring their PC to dorksquad and pay em 200 bucks...funny, how my time of doing the exact same thing is worth nothing, but bringing it in and paying twice what i would ask is somehow OK.
whatever.
Expert Comment
I don't feel like there is much to add, but I suppose I will.
I have found ONE time where it does make sense to "fix for free." (excluding all the family stuff)
And that is when I know enough about the "problem" that I realize this is something I actually WANT to do in order to learn/practice something. But you still end up in the trap at that point where they think you'll fix anything for free....but I have trouble charging someone for something I am not sure I'll be able to do.
I have found ONE time where it does make sense to "fix for free." (excluding all the family stuff)
And that is when I know enough about the "problem" that I realize this is something I actually WANT to do in order to learn/practice something. But you still end up in the trap at that point where they think you'll fix anything for free....but I have trouble charging someone for something I am not sure I'll be able to do.
Expert Comment
I WAS FEELING USED, ABUSED, AND CONFUSED. Your article was so spot on.
Expert Comment
Great suggestion about how to handle the situation where you're just not sure. Thanks.
Expert Comment
Definatly a good writeup. I use to fix computers for free, but now I not only charge for my services but make them sign release papers to me not holding me responcible for any lost data or unexpected problems other than the ones that are known and being charged to fix.
Expert Comment
Hey P0i0,
can you post that waiver? i thought of doing this too...
can you post that waiver? i thought of doing this too...
Expert Comment
DCrats,
Send me an email and I will see what I can do. I cannot post them publicly.
Email: b0x3n.builders@gmail.com
-Chris
Send me an email and I will see what I can do. I cannot post them publicly.
Email: b0x3n.builders@gmail.com
-Chris
Expert Comment
Very nice! YES from me!
Expert Comment
Great article, yeah!
Expert Comment
Coming back to this article again after a few months and once again, it ALWAYS rings true. I'd print this out and frame it in my office if it wasn't so long :P
Expert Comment
Great article. I work with people that do this type of work on the side and do quite well with it. Personally, I dislike the problems/situations so much that even $100/hour isn't worth it. I mean, I would if I had to, but thankfully I don't have to.
In order to save on discussions in the future I've decided to buy a t-shirt that simply says:
No I won't fix your computer.
In order to save on discussions in the future I've decided to buy a t-shirt that simply says:
No I won't fix your computer.
Expert Comment
Very good article. I have been a victim of all of these mentioned above.
Especially friends and family, they think you have nothing else to do in your free time.
A little time donated here and there is a lot of time if you add it up!
Especially friends and family, they think you have nothing else to do in your free time.
A little time donated here and there is a lot of time if you add it up!
Expert Comment
I remember when a buddy of mine was once asked by the CFO of his old company to 'look at' his computer at home. He actually went to the guys house that night and it ended up needing an OS rebuild. A couple days later when he dropped it off at the guys house, he was rewarded with a 6 pack of beer. lmao. I'll never forget that. I wont touch the stuff....i dont care how many 6 packs they promise me.
Expert Comment
Beachhaus:
I remember when a buddy of mine was once asked by the CFO of his old company to 'look at' his computer at home. He actually went to the guys house that night and it ended up needing an OS rebuild. A couple days later when he dropped it off at the guys house, he was rewarded with a 6 pack of beer. lmao. I'll never forget that. I wont touch the stuff....i dont care how many 6 packs they promise me.
I remember when a buddy of mine was once asked by the CFO of his old company to 'look at' his computer at home. He actually went to the guys house that night and it ended up needing an OS rebuild. A couple days later when he dropped it off at the guys house, he was rewarded with a 6 pack of beer. lmao. I'll never forget that. I wont touch the stuff....i dont care how many 6 packs they promise me.
Thus proving, ...if you don't charge, you won't get any respect.
Expert Comment
The best article I've read in the recent years!
You've got my YES.
You saved my life !
Thanks (I don't know what to say instead of thanks but it's the biggest word I learned)
You've got my YES.
You saved my life !
Thanks (I don't know what to say instead of thanks but it's the biggest word I learned)
Expert Comment
nice article.. great :D
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good video DR....so true. love the donkey site stuff. :)
Expert Comment
so true!!! thanks, now i know i am not alone ;-)
Expert Comment
Buying my first computer back in the late 90"s I looked for ways I could "learn" this $1000.00 dollar investment mean more to me. EE was a way I could learn to repair my computer. I then answered questions and recieved points. Master in Windows XP was a great day in my life.
Now I am taking the cert test Com TIA A+ If it wasn't for EE I probably not ever taken this test.
Thank-you Expert-Exchange for all the help you have been all along the way.
Now I am taking the cert test Com TIA A+ If it wasn't for EE I probably not ever taken this test.
Thank-you Expert-Exchange for all the help you have been all along the way.
Expert Comment
Totally agree, but its just so hard to not be a nice guy. What helped open my eyes up was when someone who I had helped alot (well over 40 hours of free help/labor) tried to charge me for some help I needed from them.
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Nice!!
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The problem is support is very time consuming. Our jobs are very time consuming. If you're doing your job 100% as most of us do, we barely have time for anything else. Unfortunately others don't realize that just one person calling you for help who then starts calling regularly can be very draining. You are basically working O.T. for free. Noone gives us O.T for free. Turn that one person into 2 or 3 and you have no life left and the stress factor goes through the roof. I've made this mistake and don't help people anymore unless it's my Dad.
Expert Comment
absolutley- one becomes two, becomes 4, become 8, etc...then those peopl euse you as their personl fix it guy/gal--calling for EVERY issue they have. and when they say "I have a real quick computer question"- your f%ucked....
Charge them- suprising few will balk- remind them their auto mechanic makes 70 an hour....
Charge them- suprising few will balk- remind them their auto mechanic makes 70 an hour....
Expert Comment
jajajjajja really true!!
always happen
great article
even if you start with a simple connection of a computer, always end repairing, istalling or buying extra parts
always happen
great article
even if you start with a simple connection of a computer, always end repairing, istalling or buying extra parts
Expert Comment
same with low prices. people think that quality of done service is poor...
Expert Comment
Thank you DrDamnit,
All that you described in this article happen to me for a last 30 years when I decided to not receive a money from my "friend, a neighbor, a relative, a good client, a bad client, a pretty girl...".
I have never seen such article in the past 30 years in any computer magazine.
Just now, I start with new and changed thinking ...
my best regards
Nrisimha
Expert Comment
Thank you DrDamnit,
All that you described in this article happen to me for a last 30 years when I decided to not receive a money from my "friend, a neighbor, a relative, a good client, a bad client, a pretty girl...".
I have never seen such article in the past 30 years in any computer magazine.
Just now, I start with new and changed thinking ...
my best regards
Nrisimha
Expert Comment
I don't use any free software's because of virus infections.
Expert Comment
thanks, nice work...
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A BIG yeppers!
I think I've been conviced to start charging. Thanks for the steriod shot to the backbone.
I think I've been conviced to start charging. Thanks for the steriod shot to the backbone.
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Brilliant insight! I've felt this way for decades but have never seen it in writing. Great job.
Expert Comment
nice article big vote yes, but i could never charge my parents after all they did pay for for a large chunk of my education.
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Sage advice, DrDamnit. Hauntingly true.
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"Sorry I dont fix computers, I hate them" works for me.
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Amen!
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Wow! Someone who understands my pain and suffering!
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Nice article.
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Man, this is a great article. But in reading it, I was thinking to myself, "I'm such a sap!" :) However, the good thing about most of my friends that I provide help for is that we respect each other enough to value each others' skills and compensate accordingly, be it monetary or baked goodies!
Expert Comment
Expert Comment
i always come back for a good laugh =). Great points!!
Expert Comment
This Article was more than just Helpful, it was Heart Felt for a lot of Techs.
It spoke to most of our inner souls as we all nodded and shook our heads reading each reason why we shouldn't provide free service.
This article needs to be posted a thousand times and then some, because it is just that important to understand.
I personally want to thank you for posting this article and providing this valuable information.
That not only will I implement it, but will also pass it along to all of my fellow techies.
It spoke to most of our inner souls as we all nodded and shook our heads reading each reason why we shouldn't provide free service.
This article needs to be posted a thousand times and then some, because it is just that important to understand.
I personally want to thank you for posting this article and providing this valuable information.
That not only will I implement it, but will also pass it along to all of my fellow techies.
Expert Comment
I have always used the barter system with my close friends. Loved the pretty girl comment!
Expert Comment
Is this a new EE record for comments? :D
Great article and it probably hits home for just about anyone who knows his way around a desktop, not just the professional consultants.
Friends are usually good about bartering food, beer or manual labor. Those in a financial position to easily compensate have a more real understanding of your expectations and offer monetary compensation in the beginning.
Relatives are the ones that expect all their love and support over the years to buy them free computer help. I usually concede but I will call it quits fairly quickly if it looks like it is going to be a time vampire.
In fairness, I fell prey to the "pretty girl" syndrome once upon a time.
As far as EE being similar to working for free...I disagree entirely. I know a lot about several things...but not everything IT. By providing my expertise and receiving my reward of points, I am able to use this website as a resource to solve those problems that are out of my arena. Therefore, I am compensated.
Great article and it probably hits home for just about anyone who knows his way around a desktop, not just the professional consultants.
Friends are usually good about bartering food, beer or manual labor. Those in a financial position to easily compensate have a more real understanding of your expectations and offer monetary compensation in the beginning.
Relatives are the ones that expect all their love and support over the years to buy them free computer help. I usually concede but I will call it quits fairly quickly if it looks like it is going to be a time vampire.
In fairness, I fell prey to the "pretty girl" syndrome once upon a time.
As far as EE being similar to working for free...I disagree entirely. I know a lot about several things...but not everything IT. By providing my expertise and receiving my reward of points, I am able to use this website as a resource to solve those problems that are out of my arena. Therefore, I am compensated.
Expert Comment
Like i said before- I dont "exchange" computer work for food/beer. If I CHOOSE to buy beer with the $...fine, but you are NOT getting a full computer rebuild for a 12 pack you want to split with me.
They pay the auto mechanic 80 bucks an hour...whay the he11 should we be any different?
Sorry to sound greedy, but people/friends will use the F out of you if you dont. Funny how my many fewer "problems" my friends have now that they are getting charged.
PS- your friends will be just as angry at you if somthing goes wrong wheter you charge them or not- so ya might as well make some cake.
(note: I charge about HALF of the going geek squad rate)
Funny part is some people will balk at my price, then bring it to geek squad as if they are "better" somehow.......wow...just..
They pay the auto mechanic 80 bucks an hour...whay the he11 should we be any different?
Sorry to sound greedy, but people/friends will use the F out of you if you dont. Funny how my many fewer "problems" my friends have now that they are getting charged.
PS- your friends will be just as angry at you if somthing goes wrong wheter you charge them or not- so ya might as well make some cake.
(note: I charge about HALF of the going geek squad rate)
Funny part is some people will balk at my price, then bring it to geek squad as if they are "better" somehow.......wow...just..
Expert Comment
I had a situation where I offered to fix a laptop to a family member (for free), it turned out the motherboard died while I was trying to fix it. Guess who had to pay for the laptop? I was -549.57 by the end of the day!.... I will never forget that incident...
Expert Comment
Exactly--even f you try to do it for free- they will EXPECT you fix it no matter what...
I had a "customer" ***** at me for charging him $30 bucks to recover his files---his PC was dead (old/MB fail)...i slaved his HD and recoverd all of his "must have" files.
you might as well make some money...
I had a "customer" ***** at me for charging him $30 bucks to recover his files---his PC was dead (old/MB fail)...i slaved his HD and recoverd all of his "must have" files.
you might as well make some money...
Expert Comment
i voted yes but won't turn down a bitter friend with dysfunctional pc
Expert Comment
I've been there and it was terrible. Do not even think of making exception for pretty girl since they are the one who would be on the first row of the list of the people who would never call you just to say hi! But some time we can make exception for the people who'd never hesitate to help you in the past.
Expert Comment
nicely written and true, but i will never charge family member... because thats family for support them with what you can do. BUT never say no when youre rich oncle pass you over some green ;)
Expert Comment
@ChrisNawiro, What would you have done in my situation?.. [a couple of comments above yours]. Are you insured in such a way you can take on the responsibility? what happens if you are helping that precious family member and just out of pure coincidence the computer decides to stop working while on your hands? First, if you are in fact insured, aren't you paying for it? and if you are not? Do you have deep pockets to restore the equipment to the state it was in before it was put in your hands?. ..... I mean, I don't have anything against helping a VERY close family member at my own expense but everyone else .. I don't know!....
Expert Comment
...told them their PC was a GDFPOS and told them to get a new one.
If I break one- and i know i broke it, I will pay to fix it (lucky frigging me), but if it fails out of the blue---the bill goes to them if they choose to get it fixed.
Honesty is important.
If I break one- and i know i broke it, I will pay to fix it (lucky frigging me), but if it fails out of the blue---the bill goes to them if they choose to get it fixed.
Honesty is important.
Expert Comment
@Soursop-Addict
i understand you but.... i never ever was in this kind of a situation. I never broke a PC, sure sometimes the PC was broke but that was before i was trying to fix it. I also buy never somthing upfront when i consult a family member to buy a new PC i don't pay anything. I can just say when im trying to fix things i first check everything before i do any changes. Sometimes i said "i will try to fix youre harddisc and get all youre deleted data but i don't take any responsible for youre data or PC if something goes bad".
with kind regards
ChrisNawiro
i understand you but.... i never ever was in this kind of a situation. I never broke a PC, sure sometimes the PC was broke but that was before i was trying to fix it. I also buy never somthing upfront when i consult a family member to buy a new PC i don't pay anything. I can just say when im trying to fix things i first check everything before i do any changes. Sometimes i said "i will try to fix youre harddisc and get all youre deleted data but i don't take any responsible for youre data or PC if something goes bad".
with kind regards
ChrisNawiro
Expert Comment
yep- let them know what to expect- AND give them a quick guesstimate on what you think it will cost them---thay ALWAYS want to know--wouldnt you?
if you are going to go aver- let them know ASAP and the reason why it wil be more (more parts, etc.) 9-10 times they will say "ok" to fixing it.
if you are going to go aver- let them know ASAP and the reason why it wil be more (more parts, etc.) 9-10 times they will say "ok" to fixing it.
Expert Comment
Great Source for Computer Repair
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I've never worked as an independent consultant/technician, but my hu*****and used to volunteer me to play "Help Desk" all the time, then he wondered why I was on the phone for hours and hours.
On the flipside, my mother took her sluggish/virus-laden computer to BestBuy to be fixed. They asked her if she'd backed up her files. She had backed up her documents... They reformatted the hard drive and re-installed the OS and nothing else.
People are willing to pay to have the problem fixed, but as DrDamnit said, you're the doctor so first, do no harm.
Loved this article! Paid or not, anyone who's ever helped a friend or relative can appreciate this one.
On the flipside, my mother took her sluggish/virus-laden computer to BestBuy to be fixed. They asked her if she'd backed up her files. She had backed up her documents... They reformatted the hard drive and re-installed the OS and nothing else.
People are willing to pay to have the problem fixed, but as DrDamnit said, you're the doctor so first, do no harm.
Loved this article! Paid or not, anyone who's ever helped a friend or relative can appreciate this one.
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yep- most people dont realize that BB and similar companies will charge much more to get all your stuff back the way it was- like extra programs, Office, etc...I do that for one price, which is already lower than BB and the people still balk...
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It's easier to pull out of a drive-way facing the road than it is to back out and hope you don't get hit....translation....It's
As the old joke goes....
One day a critical machine broke down, the machine that ran things. An emergency phone call was placed to an expert who came in, opened the door to the warehouse-sized room which housed the machine, and walked inside, escorted by company executives. He quietly walked through the room, observed the situation, then went up and pushed a button, and the machine started working again.
Before leaving, he tendered his bill: $1000.
"What the hell is this? $1000 for pushing a button?" exclaimed the executives.
The expert took the bill, rewrote it, and handed it back.
It now said: "For pushing a button, $1. For knowing which button to push, $999."
That is why you/we should and do get paid for what we do and will do for others! =)
As the old joke goes....
One day a critical machine broke down, the machine that ran things. An emergency phone call was placed to an expert who came in, opened the door to the warehouse-sized room which housed the machine, and walked inside, escorted by company executives. He quietly walked through the room, observed the situation, then went up and pushed a button, and the machine started working again.
Before leaving, he tendered his bill: $1000.
"What the hell is this? $1000 for pushing a button?" exclaimed the executives.
The expert took the bill, rewrote it, and handed it back.
It now said: "For pushing a button, $1. For knowing which button to push, $999."
That is why you/we should and do get paid for what we do and will do for others! =)
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Well said. :)
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yes
exactly that what happen always
exactly that what happen always
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5 Reasons why you should fix a computer for free
1. you didn't fix it right the first time
2. you didn't fix it right the second time
3. your related to the person
4. Its your computer
5. you said you would
1. you didn't fix it right the first time
2. you didn't fix it right the second time
3. your related to the person
4. Its your computer
5. you said you would
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I agree with this article. I've went into this trap for so long! Hey, even a family member already invited us for dinner, but the reason why we got invited is that they had something to fix on their computer. While we were eating, that person told me "Chris, if you want you can bring some pieces of pizza at the computer desk if you want to start to work in it". WTF!?
I've done that for friends, for family, for friends of friends, and the experience went so bad. I don't know if the problem is my family itself or it's just like that, but CLOSER YOU ARE to a person, worse the experience will be. Friends of friends treated me better than some people in my family.
So... no more free computer fixing for me!
And for those who argue that it's weird to see an article like this on EE:
I've done that for friends, for family, for friends of friends, and the experience went so bad. I don't know if the problem is my family itself or it's just like that, but CLOSER YOU ARE to a person, worse the experience will be. Friends of friends treated me better than some people in my family.
So... no more free computer fixing for me!
And for those who argue that it's weird to see an article like this on EE:
- EE is not free, unless you answer to many questions to help others!
- "Helping" someone on EE will probably take you 5-30 min of your time. But fixing the computer that your friend screwed up may take you hours, because when things are just too messed up, you have got to be very carefull, backup their data, and sometime, rebuild the whole computer if you didn't took an image of it.
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and dont fall for the "real quick" look at it....there is no such thing...
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Oh and that 3rd point: "They will expect it forever". So true!
So many time i've removed virus from family & friends computer. Then few weeks later i get a call and they are giving me a load of s.. and tell me that the virus is still there. But It's not the same and probably there was a virus that was not detected in the first removal that keep letting other virus come in.
Hopefully, my parents (which are the only one i don't charge atm) get more and more responsible, and i've installed DeepFreeze on their computer so my time to fix their problems is down to almost 0.
So many time i've removed virus from family & friends computer. Then few weeks later i get a call and they are giving me a load of s.. and tell me that the virus is still there. But It's not the same and probably there was a virus that was not detected in the first removal that keep letting other virus come in.
Hopefully, my parents (which are the only one i don't charge atm) get more and more responsible, and i've installed DeepFreeze on their computer so my time to fix their problems is down to almost 0.
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Has anybody noted that every minute you spend answering questions on EE is a minute spent helping to fix a computer for free?
So...
Whatever reason you use to justify answering questions on EE can also be used to justify helping friends, family, neighbors fixing their computers.
Or...
You if you really want to follow the advice of this article, you should IMMEDIATLEY and FOREVER stop answering questions on EE.
So...
Whatever reason you use to justify answering questions on EE can also be used to justify helping friends, family, neighbors fixing their computers.
Or...
You if you really want to follow the advice of this article, you should IMMEDIATLEY and FOREVER stop answering questions on EE.
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Or, you know, you get compensation in the form of free membership and the ability to ask others to help you.
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As the author of the article, you -- of all people -- know exactly which parts of it include hyperbole, DRAMATIC EMPHASIS, and exaggerations to make that point. I think it likely that you also know that there are plenty of exceptions to this kind of general rule and I see that you were careful to avoid weakening the argument by mentioning them.
These are all tools of the writing business. Nobody can fault you for using them; I certainly don't.
What's more, I agree that for a very narrow situation -- where a person makes his living fixing other people's computers -- you may be perfectly correct. Doing that specific job for free could be counterproductive.
But in the broader scope...
Most of us have learned basic computer wrangling as a necessary background skill. We are not professional computer service technicians, but we tend to know things that computer novices do not. Sharing a bit of that learned skill is not always the terrible mistake that you make it out to be.
In fact, the rewards are often exactly the same as what EE offers: A chance to learn new things, some pleasure found in being correct, and the joy of helping somebody who needs help. In case you missed it... that's my point.
These are all tools of the writing business. Nobody can fault you for using them; I certainly don't.
What's more, I agree that for a very narrow situation -- where a person makes his living fixing other people's computers -- you may be perfectly correct. Doing that specific job for free could be counterproductive.
But in the broader scope...
Most of us have learned basic computer wrangling as a necessary background skill. We are not professional computer service technicians, but we tend to know things that computer novices do not. Sharing a bit of that learned skill is not always the terrible mistake that you make it out to be.
In fact, the rewards are often exactly the same as what EE offers: A chance to learn new things, some pleasure found in being correct, and the joy of helping somebody who needs help. In case you missed it... that's my point.
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Another way to avoid the headaches caused by "greedy freeloaders" and that ilk is to simply employ an intelligent filtering mechanism. If this person has helped you in the past (e.g., fed your cat while you were on vacation or paid your college tuition or gave birth to one of your parents) or if you have helped her in the past without deleterious consequences (impossible under your guidelines, but I mention it anyway), or if you just happen to know that she is an honest, intelligent person... well, maybe NEVER does not always apply.
What's more, if you are any kind of experienced technician, you can avoid the major pitfalls: 1) Don't break anything. 2) Don't give it away if they won't value/respect it. 3,4,5) Learn the service equivallent of "good bedside manner" -- talk to the patient about alternatives, including how to find a specialist.
As to the resounding agreement echoed in the reader comments: I've already said it before: It is easy to find reasons to not help somebody who needs help. Everybody loves to hear advice that will give them a good-sounding reason to drink beer and watch the game when they could be doing something helpful.
What's more, if you are any kind of experienced technician, you can avoid the major pitfalls: 1) Don't break anything. 2) Don't give it away if they won't value/respect it. 3,4,5) Learn the service equivallent of "good bedside manner" -- talk to the patient about alternatives, including how to find a specialist.
As to the resounding agreement echoed in the reader comments: I've already said it before: It is easy to find reasons to not help somebody who needs help. Everybody loves to hear advice that will give them a good-sounding reason to drink beer and watch the game when they could be doing something helpful.
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I definitely see Dan's point, but I agree with DrDamnit's article, generally in whole. It applies to me very well, and I do a wide range of various types of computer jobs and roles in my day to day business and life.
I can think of one prime example that started when I was an amateur, where nearly every aspect of this article was exploited by the client.
I agree that to apply to a wide range of people in real life situations, maybe not "never," but definitely rarely, and not just for nothing: some sort of barter as DrDamnit mentioned or past debt vis-a-vis Dan, should be required.
@Dan: even highly skilled tech's can "break it" when removing a problem. It's not actually breaking something, often it's damage from holes left by malware, and it can be something the client "expects" should work after, but that was actually broken by something else previously on the computer.
As a rule of thumb, this article does an excellent job at supporting and promoting professionalism, not just about simply refusing jobs. It is something I would recommend someone read daily if they have severe trouble with any of the aspects discussed by DrDamnit.
Great work!
-Rob
I can think of one prime example that started when I was an amateur, where nearly every aspect of this article was exploited by the client.
I agree that to apply to a wide range of people in real life situations, maybe not "never," but definitely rarely, and not just for nothing: some sort of barter as DrDamnit mentioned or past debt vis-a-vis Dan, should be required.
@Dan: even highly skilled tech's can "break it" when removing a problem. It's not actually breaking something, often it's damage from holes left by malware, and it can be something the client "expects" should work after, but that was actually broken by something else previously on the computer.
As a rule of thumb, this article does an excellent job at supporting and promoting professionalism, not just about simply refusing jobs. It is something I would recommend someone read daily if they have severe trouble with any of the aspects discussed by DrDamnit.
Great work!
-Rob
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I provide expertise under the philosophy of quid pro quo but the return in benefit does not necessarily have to be me.
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I'm absolutely with Dan on this one....
I get the concept that you should given't your clients freebies, but your close friends and family? Seriously.... I'm very particular about who I full out help for free when it comes to friends, family, and my colleagues. Why? Because I don't have time to help everyone...if I could, I would. BUT I'll give them advice to anyone, recommend people to fix it and the hardware to back it up. Why? Because educating people is important. It took time to learn my skills, yes...but it also took your neighbour who is a mechanic time to learn his skills and you just spent 15 minutes grilling him in his drive way.
But NEVER would I ask for money from my close friends and family. Why? Because they are friends and family. Also being that you're my family or close friends I will take my sweet time with fixing your PC because I'm BUSY. You wanted it for free, right? I do it because you are my family and friends and that's what we are here for. It's unfortunate that majority of people in this world put money above the relationships with the people who truly care about them.
Anyone who can't take the pressure of "hey, you screwed up my computer!" better check their people skills and start educating (politely, don't talk down to them) the user who screw it up in the first place. Same idea goes for identifying when you are being used.
Have some faith people! Help people out!!! The single mom at the office can't afford $200 to have her PC fixed at best buy. Stop assuming the world and everyone in it is out to get you and use you.
I get the concept that you should given't your clients freebies, but your close friends and family? Seriously.... I'm very particular about who I full out help for free when it comes to friends, family, and my colleagues. Why? Because I don't have time to help everyone...if I could, I would. BUT I'll give them advice to anyone, recommend people to fix it and the hardware to back it up. Why? Because educating people is important. It took time to learn my skills, yes...but it also took your neighbour who is a mechanic time to learn his skills and you just spent 15 minutes grilling him in his drive way.
But NEVER would I ask for money from my close friends and family. Why? Because they are friends and family. Also being that you're my family or close friends I will take my sweet time with fixing your PC because I'm BUSY. You wanted it for free, right? I do it because you are my family and friends and that's what we are here for. It's unfortunate that majority of people in this world put money above the relationships with the people who truly care about them.
Anyone who can't take the pressure of "hey, you screwed up my computer!" better check their people skills and start educating (politely, don't talk down to them) the user who screw it up in the first place. Same idea goes for identifying when you are being used.
Have some faith people! Help people out!!! The single mom at the office can't afford $200 to have her PC fixed at best buy. Stop assuming the world and everyone in it is out to get you and use you.
Expert Comment
ok megs...
"hey, my computer is broke- can you fix it?"
-ok bring it over.
"its got something popping up...some tijauana donkey something or another.."
-nice...will have a look- probably infected.
(four hours of scans, searching, virus and spyware removal later...)
-here ya go. be careful on the internet and watch what you click on
"ok- will do..I brought a 6-pack of bush light- wanna split it"
-(sigh)
(one week later)
"hey, my computer is broke - can you fix it?" "something about tijuana..."
(sigh)
THAT is why i dont do it for free.
"hey, my computer is broke- can you fix it?"
-ok bring it over.
"its got something popping up...some tijauana donkey something or another.."
-nice...will have a look- probably infected.
(four hours of scans, searching, virus and spyware removal later...)
-here ya go. be careful on the internet and watch what you click on
"ok- will do..I brought a 6-pack of bush light- wanna split it"
-(sigh)
(one week later)
"hey, my computer is broke - can you fix it?" "something about tijuana..."
(sigh)
THAT is why i dont do it for free.
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YES!!
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capitalism.txt
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Free is better than working for "points".
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Points...no thank you....
Scenario2:
"say...what do you charge to fix computers"
Depends
"can you fix mine"
probably---what it doing...et...etc..
"how much?"
it will be xxxxx dollars to fix....
"WHAT?!?!?!"
you pay your auto mechanic eighty bucks an hour to fix your car....by the time i am done, I will be lucky to be making 1/2 or 1/4 that....
"you mean i am have to give you FORTY bucks an hour!?!?!?!!?"
probably not....
"screw you...you'r an *****...I am taking it to geek squad...."
good luck with all that....
(they take it in, gladly pay $300 bucks to have windows reinstalled off the one click reinstall disk....)
(and of course they automatically assume you dont know shit because you dont have your own computer shop)
Scenario2:
"say...what do you charge to fix computers"
Depends
"can you fix mine"
probably---what it doing...et...etc..
"how much?"
it will be xxxxx dollars to fix....
"WHAT?!?!?!"
you pay your auto mechanic eighty bucks an hour to fix your car....by the time i am done, I will be lucky to be making 1/2 or 1/4 that....
"you mean i am have to give you FORTY bucks an hour!?!?!?!!?"
probably not....
"screw you...you'r an *****...I am taking it to geek squad...."
good luck with all that....
(they take it in, gladly pay $300 bucks to have windows reinstalled off the one click reinstall disk....)
(and of course they automatically assume you dont know shit because you dont have your own computer shop)
Expert Comment
"More likely, however, that five minute task you thought you were signing up for turned into 40 minutes, then an hour, then a commitment. Wow. You didn't see that coming."
Boy, there's never been a truer statement than that. The last "freebie" fix I did was for a girl who's ex-boyfriend had installed a keylogger on her PC as well as other "stuff". Fixing that PC lead to a life long commitment of fixing her equipment for free. We've been married 6 years and counting. ;-)
Boy, there's never been a truer statement than that. The last "freebie" fix I did was for a girl who's ex-boyfriend had installed a keylogger on her PC as well as other "stuff". Fixing that PC lead to a life long commitment of fixing her equipment for free. We've been married 6 years and counting. ;-)
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I HAD to put that keylogger on there because I thought she was cheating on me with another computer guy....oh....wait.....
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My wife gets free tech support; everyone else pays.
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Great article!
You also don't ask a friend who is a painter to paint your house for free.
A lot of people don't have any idea how long fixing a computer can take.
You also don't ask a friend who is a painter to paint your house for free.
A lot of people don't have any idea how long fixing a computer can take.
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You bet its a YES ..no more freebies!!!
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I only fix immediate family member computers for free. Everyone else has to at least barter.
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I have been known to give computer services to my uber high rated chess player friend in exchange for one-on-one lessons.
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Sometimes helping for free is unavoidable. Helping is sometimes saving our own time and resources but I agree to most of the article.
Thumbs up!
Thumbs up!
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I was doing this a lot since it was interesting to solve different problems, not only computer but also even phones. I was doing it for a couple of beers or a meal.
Lately, for last couple of months, I start saying I don't know now. :)
Lately, for last couple of months, I start saying I don't know now. :)
Expert Comment
I have a customer that fits number 4 perfectly.
We helped her over the internet once, for free, and now she calls and talks to my technicians FOR FREE and bothers them with hypothetical scenarios! To top it off, after she gets advice from them, she says that they are WRONG!
Here's the kicker; after I told my employees to tell her we have to charge for any advice, she wanted to speak to ME, because she could figure I would help her for free. You need to teach your employees to say no, to ask for money, and to tell the customer that, "I cannot help you any further for free. This will cost X amount of dollars", PERIOD.
Great Article! I'm going to print it off for my employees to read it!
We helped her over the internet once, for free, and now she calls and talks to my technicians FOR FREE and bothers them with hypothetical scenarios! To top it off, after she gets advice from them, she says that they are WRONG!
Here's the kicker; after I told my employees to tell her we have to charge for any advice, she wanted to speak to ME, because she could figure I would help her for free. You need to teach your employees to say no, to ask for money, and to tell the customer that, "I cannot help you any further for free. This will cost X amount of dollars", PERIOD.
Great Article! I'm going to print it off for my employees to read it!
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Let me laugh !!!! Propagande ???
This article is on EE only to argue with EE's "not free" policy.
We all agree that Experts are here because they like the challenge, or simply need help.
Either experts give helps, either experts needs helps.
But in no case, experts will be paid for that.
And of course, experts-exchange.com will receive money... A LOT of money.
EE site is paid for EE community job.
Nice done guys !! ;)
(I assume this comment will "unvoluntary" removed...)
Once upon a time EE was a community where you could find answer quickly and easily... But now, we can find those answer for FREE on a lot of other place...
Hmmm, last point... haven't you never got help from friends, family... for repairing your house, fixing your car, gardening... ? Have they made you pay for that ?
This article is on EE only to argue with EE's "not free" policy.
We all agree that Experts are here because they like the challenge, or simply need help.
Either experts give helps, either experts needs helps.
But in no case, experts will be paid for that.
And of course, experts-exchange.com will receive money... A LOT of money.
EE site is paid for EE community job.
Nice done guys !! ;)
(I assume this comment will "unvoluntary" removed...)
Once upon a time EE was a community where you could find answer quickly and easily... But now, we can find those answer for FREE on a lot of other place...
Hmmm, last point... haven't you never got help from friends, family... for repairing your house, fixing your car, gardening... ? Have they made you pay for that ?
Expert Comment
Dude....I have helped people for free more than I can count. Its not sustainable to continue to spend MY time on THEIR PC's...
Do you come home from an 8-10 hour day of working on computers, just to get to work on your friends PC that they have F-ed up for the tenth time from downloading tijuana donkey porn site viruses? Really? Good for you. you have fun with all that.
Its like being a car repairman...sure, you can "help" here and there, but you cant possibly keep up with everyones problems.
Funny how you start to charge them- even a menial amount (like 1/2 or less than shops) and they suddenly dissapear.
I will tell you straight up that your "friend" dosent give two rips that you spent 4 hours rebuliding their PC and restoring everything...they just drop it off and pick it up with a dry "thanks"...and "took long enough.."
Trust me---Make them pay SOMETHING. They have to realaize how much time and effort is involved. They can take it to geek squad. they will pay out the ass and have worse service.
Do you come home from an 8-10 hour day of working on computers, just to get to work on your friends PC that they have F-ed up for the tenth time from downloading tijuana donkey porn site viruses? Really? Good for you. you have fun with all that.
Its like being a car repairman...sure, you can "help" here and there, but you cant possibly keep up with everyones problems.
Funny how you start to charge them- even a menial amount (like 1/2 or less than shops) and they suddenly dissapear.
I will tell you straight up that your "friend" dosent give two rips that you spent 4 hours rebuliding their PC and restoring everything...they just drop it off and pick it up with a dry "thanks"...and "took long enough.."
Trust me---Make them pay SOMETHING. They have to realaize how much time and effort is involved. They can take it to geek squad. they will pay out the ass and have worse service.
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its absolutely TRUE!
i have friends fits with number 4 :) hahaha
i have friends fits with number 4 :) hahaha
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I totally agree with the article, in fact I found out that friends I charge respect my profession more than friends I repaired their computer for free.
So no more free repair. (well... my sister is excluded of course.)
So no more free repair. (well... my sister is excluded of course.)
Expert Comment
just read this and I agree NO MORE FREE REPAIRS.
Just the other day a virus locked up a colleagues laptop. So I helped her wiping it and patching it. I have noticed that a key is missing from the keyboard so I ordered her a new keyboard (for free I might add). I cleaned the screen and laptop cause it was filthy and disgusting... (Pet peeve of mine). All this I did throughout the day but at least 2 to 3 hours of work.
What did I get?
I got a "Are you done yet?" after day one.
I got a brief "Thanks" and no acknowledgement for the new keyboard....
OH and a "it was not that dirty..." for cleaning the screen. The Kleenex was black after.
So ..... I will charge from now on. Not an Arm and a leg but at least enough for a good Dinner.
Just the other day a virus locked up a colleagues laptop. So I helped her wiping it and patching it. I have noticed that a key is missing from the keyboard so I ordered her a new keyboard (for free I might add). I cleaned the screen and laptop cause it was filthy and disgusting... (Pet peeve of mine). All this I did throughout the day but at least 2 to 3 hours of work.
What did I get?
I got a "Are you done yet?" after day one.
I got a brief "Thanks" and no acknowledgement for the new keyboard....
OH and a "it was not that dirty..." for cleaning the screen. The Kleenex was black after.
So ..... I will charge from now on. Not an Arm and a leg but at least enough for a good Dinner.
Expert Comment
Yep dude...its like being a doctor/auto repairman/lawyer...
Everybody wants your help, but nobody wants to pay for it.
No thank you. They WILL abuse it...PERIOD.
Everybody wants your help, but nobody wants to pay for it.
No thank you. They WILL abuse it...PERIOD.
by: younghvon 2009-12-16 at 09:29:01ID: 6797
Big "YES" vote above.
Who amongst us has NOT been burned by the old "Do me a favor?" trap? And why is it that everyone we know seems to think that we have nothing better to do than fix some computer problem that they created?
Great Article that articulated several things I've been thinking for years.
Thanks.
Vic