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美國網友問:歐美人幾乎不事生產為什麽這麽富有

(2023-02-15 23:42:57) 下一個

美國網友問:歐美人民幾乎不事生產為什麽這麽富有?

2023-02-15 16:37:59 來源: 曲樂逗
 
一般發達國家,像西歐的國家第三產業即服務業占GDP70%以上,從業人數比重也最大,越發達的國家服務業的知識性和科技含量會更高,服務業的工資還是由國家的創匯大項決定的,教育、創新、科技會決定利潤的上限。發達國家是抱團發展的,以美國為首,所以美英德法等工業及科教強國能帶動一批小國走向發達。在美版知乎Quora上,美國網友提問道:歐美人民幾乎不事生產為什麽這麽富有?這引起各國網友的圍觀和熱議,我們看看他們的觀點。


問題


中國網友盧卡•楊的回答

Western developed countries have mastered a lot of advanced science and technology by relying on the first-mover advantage. Even small countries in Europe can earn a lot of money by relying on one or two advanced technologies and live a rich and comfortable life.

西方發達國家依靠先發優勢,掌握了大量先進的科學技術,即便是歐洲很小的國家,也可以依靠一兩樣先進技術賺大錢,過上富裕、安逸的生活。

I have repeatedly told a story told to me by my college tutor. His tutor graduated from college in the early 1980s. At that time, a classmate in his class went to the United States through various relationships and found a job killing fish in the supermarket, which made everyone envy. Because he earns 2000 dollars a month from killing fish, which is more than the income of domestic professors in a year.

我曾經反複講過我的大學導師給我講的一個故事,他的導師八十年代初大學畢業,當時班上有個同學通過各種關係去了美國,在超市找了個殺魚的工作,惹得大家無比羨慕。因為他殺魚一個月的收入有兩千美金,比國內教授一年的收入還多。

This is the country that has mastered the top of the technology and industrial chain. The life of the lowest level citizens is better than that of the best elites in other countries.

這就是掌握科技和產業鏈頂端的國家,最底層國民的生活,比其他國家最優秀的精英還過得好。


For example, before the birth of the SPC exchange, the foreign SPC exchange sold 30000 yuan per set, and an additional heat sink was required. In fact, it was an ordinary iron sheet, and the charge was 3000 yuan. If you don't agree, you won't sell your machine.

比如,程控交換機誕生之前,國外的程控交換機賣三萬塊一台,並且還要額外配一塊散熱板,實際上就是一片普通鐵片,收費三千元,要是不同意,那就不賣你機器。

The foreign engineers who design and produce these programmable controllers can, of course, work two or three days a week and take paid holidays everywhere.

設計和生產這些程控機的外國工程師,當然可以拿很高的工資,一周工作兩三天,四處帶薪度假。


For example, the shield machine for tunneling. Not only are there more than one billion units, but all maintenance must be carried out by German engineers flying from Germany. China will reimburse all travel and entertainment expenses. Labor costs are calculated according to German standards, and Chinese personnel are not allowed to be present during maintenance.

比如挖隧道的盾構機。不但十多億一台,而且所有的維修都必須德國工程師從德國飛過來,中國要報銷一切差旅費和招待費,工時費按德國標準算,而且維修時中方人員不得在場。

So for the Germans at that time, traveling to China was a beautiful business trip. They could eat, drink and play for free, and finally went home with more than 100000 euros.

所以對於當時的德國人來說出差中國是趟美差,可以免費吃喝遊玩,最後揣著十幾萬歐元回家了。

Therefore, western developed countries do not need to work overtime, and have various kinds of enviable benefits such as paid leave. They can use high technology to harvest the wealth of the world. I also admired the leisurely and rich life of Europeans at that time, but I didn't realize that it was the result of the efforts of several generations.

所以西方發達國家不用加班,有著各種帶薪休假等令人羨慕的福利。他們可以利用高科技收割全世界的財富。我當時也很羨慕歐洲人這種悠閑富裕的生活,卻沒有想到,這是人家幾代人努力的結果。

The world is a pyramid. European and American countries use their technological advantages to stand at the top of the pyramid and enjoy various benefits. Now Chinese people want to climb up and live the same life as them. The problem is that the world's resources are limited. If we go up, some countries in the West will be squeezed out. They will never be reconciled.

這個世界是金字塔形的,歐美諸國就是利用自己的技術優勢站在金字塔尖享受各種福利。現在中國人想爬上去,也想過上和他們一樣的生活,問題是世界資源是有限的,如果我們上去了,西方必然有國家會被擠下來,他們是絕不會甘心的。

As US President Barack Obama said, if every Chinese people live a high standard of life, it will be a disaster.

就像美國總統奧巴馬說的那樣,如果每個中國人都過上高水平的生活,這將是一場災難。

But how can the Chinese people be willing to stay at the bottom of the pyramid forever? What's wrong with pursuing a better life?

但是中國人民怎麽甘心永遠在金字塔的最底層呢,追求更好的生活有什麽錯呢?


印度網友巴拉吉的回答

Tom began to work as a cashier in a shop, and he did very well. A few years later, he was promoted to store manager and then general manager for several years. The general manager no longer produces anything tangible - he doesn't move things, doesn't handle cash registers, doesn't code websites, and doesn't do direct sales. However, he still made a lot of money.

湯姆開始在一家商店當收銀員,他做得很出色。幾年後,他被提升為商店經理,再當幾年總經理。總經理不再生產任何有形的東西——他不搬東西,不處理收銀機,不為網站編碼,也不做直銷。但是,他仍然賺了很多錢。

You need to produce something tangible to make a lot of money. This is a fallacy. Those who recognize this may have never attended a business course. The greatest value lies in producing intangible documents - coordinating production, leading the implementation of concepts, selling ideas to investors, and formulating business strategies that the company should engage in. Tangible assets are a commodity. Intangible assets are more rare and therefore of high value.

你需要生產一些有形的東西來賺大錢,這是一種謬論。認可這一點的人可能從未參加過商業課程。最大的價值在於產生無形的文件——協調生產、領導概念的執行、向投資者出售想法以及製定公司應該從事的業務戰略。有形資產是一種商品。無形資產更為罕見,因此價值極高。

Of course, you need to start producing tangible assets to be eligible to produce intangible assets. You are not qualified to formulate an overall development strategy until you have worked in the front line for many years and made achievements.

當然,你需要開始生產有形資產,才能有資格生產無形資產。你沒有資格製定整體發展戰略,直到你在一線工作多年,並做出成績。

The same is true for a country or an economy. When an economy is small and immature, it only produces tangible products - food, clothing, steel, and then a large number of low-value goods. You can touch and feel production. Unfortunately, all these are low value. Then it got promoted. It began to involve design, research and innovation - all of which are intangible.

一個國家或一個經濟體也是一個道理。當一個經濟體規模較小且不太成熟時,它隻生產有形的產品——食物、衣服、鋼鐵,然後是大量低價值商品,你可以觸摸和感受生產。不幸的是,所有這些都是低價值的。然後它得到了提升。它開始涉及設計、研究和創新——所有這些都是無形的。


In many cases, the general manager is mainly because he has worked in the company for many years and has a close relationship. He became the main way to connect the whole company. This is the role played by London and New York. For centuries, they have been dealing with this problem and have become trade centers. Sometimes, GM can formulate a clever strategy that may completely change their business mode.

很多時候,總經理主要是因為他在公司工作多年,關係密切,他成為連接管理整個公司的主要途徑。這就是倫敦和紐約所扮演的角色。幾個世紀以來,他們一直在處理這個問題,並成為貿易中心。有些時候,通用汽車可以製定一個巧妙的戰略,可能會徹底改變他們的經營方式。

Think of a company like Apple. The physical mobile phone you touch is made in China. These are less than 10% of the product value. The main value is to connect all ideas to produce products that are meaningful to customers, or at least make everyone believe that it is meaningful to them. This is an almost monopoly advantage of Silicon Valley.

想想蘋果這樣的公司。你觸摸到的實體手機是在中國製造的。這些低於產品價值的10%。主要價值在於將所有想法聯係起來,以生產出對客戶有意義的產品,或者至少讓每個人都相信這對他們有意義。這是矽穀幾乎壟斷的優勢。

If you really understand the practice of McKinsey and Goldman Sachs, it will not be difficult for you to understand how the American and British economies operate.

如果你真的了解麥肯錫或高盛的做法,你就不會很難理解美國和英國經濟是如何運作的。

Many countries in Western Europe and the United States conduct high-level coordination to produce intangible assets - consulting, software, finance, marketing and high-tech manufacturing. Even the manufacturing industry of some German companies such as Siemens also involves many intangible assets such as intellectual property rights and creative innovation. This is why they are rich.

西歐和美國的許多國家進行高層協調,生產無形資產——谘詢、軟件、金融、營銷和高科技製造業。即使是像西門子這樣的一些德國公司的製造業也涉及很多知識產權、創意創新等無形資產。這就是他們富有的原因。


海外網友阿萊克•科利的回答

Balaji Viswanathan clearly summarized most aspects. I want to give another small example.

Balaji Viswanathan清楚地總結了大部分方麵。我想再舉一個小例子。

The following is a case study: this is how a typical manufacturing company occupies an advantageous position in the industrial chain.

以下是一個案例研究:這就是典型的製造公司如何占據產業鏈的優勢地位。


 

In addition to manufacturers and customers, you will find that there are two companies involved. These two are "process licensors" and "third-party inspectors".

除了製造商和客戶,你會發現還有兩家公司參與其中。這兩個就是“工藝許可方”和“第三方檢驗員”。

Now, customers can be anyone who has a lot of money to invest in. Government, private enterprises such as Reliance or PPP (Public Private Partnership). Because this is a major technology investment project that will ultimately provide services to the majority of users (we are not aware of the direct impact of the processing plant, but looking around, you will find that almost everything around you was once part of the processing plant), so the transaction is not as simple as that of customers to suppliers.

現在,客戶可以是任何有大量資金可投資的人。政府、像Reliance或PPP(公私夥伴關係)這樣的私營企業。由於這是一個重大的技術投資項目,最終將為廣大用戶提供服務(我們沒有意識到加工廠的直接影響,但環顧四周,你會發現你周圍的幾乎所有東西都曾經是加工廠的一部分),因此交易並不像客戶對供應商那樣簡單。

Process licensors (such as KBR, Snaprogetti, Haldor Tops ø e, Toyo Engineering, etc.) have the technical know-how for the actual operation of the plant. Through strict research and development, they have become masters of existing technology and have patents. Therefore, anyone who wants to build a processing plant (fertilizer or oil refinery) must go there. In layman's words, they are the consultants of the whole matter. They will tell you what is the safe working ability and the overall specification of the equipment, and ultimately they will ensure the work of the unit.

工藝許可方(如KBR、Snamprogetti、Haldor Topsøe、Toyo Engineering等)擁有工廠實際運行的技術訣竅。通過嚴格的研發,他們已成為現有工藝的大師,並擁有專利。因此,任何想要建造加工廠(化肥廠或煉油廠)的人都必須去他們那裏。用外行的話來說,他們是整個事情的顧問。他們會告訴你什麽是安全工作能力,設備的總體規格等,最終他們會保證機組的工作。

Because they accepted the guarantee, which is their final license to the equipment manufacturer. They list the company's name and give it to the customer. Most of the time, customers do not deal directly with manufacturers. The order is placed by the process licensor. Why? Because when you provide equipment, you are responsible for providing on-site support. The company with ASME "R" seal can only repair for the third party manufacturer. Otherwise, it is the manufacturer's job. Nobody likes to repair. PL knows who is a good manufacturer.

因為,他們接受了保證,這是他們對設備製造商的最後許可。他們列出公司的名字,並將其交給客戶。大多數時候,客戶不會直接與製造商打交道。下單的是流程許可方。為什麽?因為當您提供設備時,您有責任提供現場支持。擁有ASME“R”印章的公司隻能為第三方製造商進行維修。否則,這是製造商的工作。沒有人喜歡修理,PL知道誰是好的製造商。

The manufacturer works with PL to carry out detailed engineering design, manufacture and deliver the equipment. In between, the quality test is conducted by TPI. In some cases, TPI and PL are the same.

製造商與PL一起進行詳細工程設計,製造設備並交付。在這兩者之間,質量測試由TPI(國際頂尖的服務外包谘詢公司)進行。在某些情況下,TPI和PL是相同的。

Now, in the whole case, who do you think is the control of the project? Who will make the most profit.

現在,在整個案例中,你認為誰是項目的控製權?誰將獲得最大利潤。

Facts have proved that almost all PL companies are Western companies, and only a few companies such as Japan Toyo Engineering. In addition to acting as PL, they sometimes act as EPC (engineering, procurement and construction) companies, thus greatly increasing profits.

事實證明,幾乎所有的PL都是西方公司,隻有少數像日本東洋工程這樣的公司。除了作為PL,他們有時還充當EPC(工程、采購和施工)公司,從而大幅增加利潤。

The only reason is that work outsourcing in Asian countries is due to cheap labor. Because most of these projects are of one kind, the automation is very limited, and the process becomes labor-intensive.

唯一的原因是,亞洲國家的工作外包是因為廉價勞動力。因為,這些項目大多是一種,自動化非常有限,流程變得勞動密集。

The second case is raw materials (such as plates and forgings). These are mainly imported from Europe. Material research and development is a technology-intensive process, mainly carried out in Europe. South Korea is slowly entering this field, but compared with its western counterparts, their quality is not very good.

第二種情況是原材料(如板材和鍛件)。這些主要是從歐洲進口的。材料研發是一個技術密集型過程,主要在歐洲進行。韓國正在慢慢進入這一領域,但與西方同行相比,他們的質量並不是很好。

I hope this can answer your question!

希望這能回答您的問題!


 

網友傑克•梅嫩德斯的回答

Western countries have banking industry, cutting-edge technology, and stocks of the largest and most profitable multinational companies. The "other places" engaged in manufacturing and production are earning peanut money at the bottom of the value chain, engaging in cheap, stupid and dirty (also known as pollution) labor. This is the world order we live in, and the status quo that the vested interests of Western countries need to be maintained. If necessary, military forces can even be used.

西方國家擁有銀行業,擁有尖端技術,擁有最大和最賺錢的跨國公司的股票。從事製造和生產的“其他地方”正在價值鏈的底層賺取花生錢,從事廉價、愚蠢和肮髒(又稱汙染)的勞動力。這是我們所處的世界秩序,也是西方國家既得利益需要維護的現狀,如果需要,甚至可以動用軍事力量。


 

The West has all the tricks. Knowledge is wealth and knowledge is power. Knowledge can be converted into investment to create wealth, and wealth can be converted into more investment to invest in any profitable field in the world. More investment generates more wealth, and more wealth can be invested in research to generate more knowledge.

西方擁有所有的訣竅,知識就是財富,知識就是力量。知識可以轉化為創造財富的投資,財富可以轉化為更多的投資,投入到世界上任何有利可圖的領域。更多的投資產生更多的財富,更多的財富可以投入研究,產生更多的知識。

It is not because they do not know how to manufacture that the western countries let most of their manufacturing take place in other regions such as Asia, Africa and Latin America; But because they know exactly what must be done (precisely define the requirements) and how to do it (design involving major research and development), and choose a low-cost place to accept orders, such as heating this x%, y%, bending its shape, coloring, and then sending us something. (I know this is too simplistic, but you should understand this)

西方國家讓大部分製造業發生在亞非拉等其他地區,並不是因為他們不知道如何製造;但因為他們確切地知道必須做什麽(精確地定義需求)以及如何做(涉及重大研發的設計),並且選擇了一個低成本的地方,知道接受訂單,比如把這個的x%,y%,加熱它,彎曲它的形狀,上色,然後給我們發出來的東西。(我知道這過於簡化,但你應該明白這一點)

You see, this requires a set of skills to accept orders and execute them neatly without confusion. That's why China got a lot of such jobs, not Uganda. However, this kind of skill is still at the bottom of the "skill triangle". What is important is knowledge, which is how to conceive products, design products, and figure out the methods of repeatedly manufacturing products on the assembly line.

你看,這需要一套技能來接受命令,並在不混亂的情況下整齊地執行。這就是為什麽中國得到了很多這樣的工作,而不是烏幹達。但這種技能仍然處於“技能三角”的底部,重要的是知識,這些知識是如何構思產品、設計產品並想出在裝配線上重複製造產品的方法的。

As a result, the manufacturing of low-value and high-output equipment has been transferred to low-income countries. These devices fill our streets and hypermarkets, so they have a high reputation. But there are still many manufacturing industries in the West. It is mainly a complex and high-value equipment purchased by companies rather than individuals, which most people have never seen. If you look at the trade balance of manufactured goods, you will find that developed countries produce a large number of products you do not know.

所以結果是,低價值、高產量設備的製造已經轉移到低收入國家。這些設備充斥著我們的大街和大賣場,因此具有很高的知名度。但西方仍有很多製造業。它主要是由公司而非個人購買的複雜、高價值的設備,大多數人從未見過。如果你看一下製成品的貿易差額,你會發現發達國家生產了大量你根本不知道的產品。

Then, as others have pointed out, there is also intellectual property. It is easy to be fascinated by physical objects. But if a writer wrote a book and printed it overseas, who would add the most value? Is it a writer who has created some unique works, or an overseas worker who supervises an almost automatic printing machine?

然後,正如其他人所指出的,還有知識產權方麵。很容易被食物迷住。但是,如果一位作家寫了一本書,而且是在海外印刷的,那麽誰增加的價值最大呢?是創作了一些獨特作品的作家,還是監督一家幾乎全自動印刷機的海外工人?

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