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對長期投資的一些思考 - 二十 (主要是轉貼的內容)

(2017-01-10 11:54:54) 下一個

他山之石、可以攻玉(瞎說投資、投機、掏糞與選擇,老生常談類的長篇純忽悠,不喜慎入)

來源: 2016-09-19 20:56:57

下麵是我和瞎嫂的討論結果:人生若想獲得最大的人生自由,不在於你占有多少資源,而在於你的人生格局有多大,假如一個人總是拘泥於一城一地的得失,總是盡全力追求局部的最優,其結果往往是痛苦不堪,如果能夠設法開拓眼界,不拘泥於眼前的局部得失,始終著眼於大局,人生活會容易很多,自由很多。

借用我們推崇的羅振宇《羅輯思維》節目中的一個說法作為本帖的結束語:人生中的一個個選擇總可以有從戰略的或者戰術的角度去選擇,從戰術戰役的角度看問題就不免拘泥於一城一地的局部得失。從戰略的角度去看問題則是不斷從一個個舊的平衡走向一個個新的平衡。

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《羅輯思維》也是我比較喜歡的一個節目。

戰術                                戰略

 

投資股票市場, 總是要麵對市場波動的,如何麵對是每個投資者的艱巨挑戰。下麵是一些網絡內容,供你參考。

重複一遍,供你參考。

KK 對老巴的一些評論:

Conclusions
So over the past few days, I went through a bunch of Buffett's writings, primarily focused on seeing if he is actually a market timer or not.

My conclusion is that he isn't, really, even though he acts that way at times.  Not buying stuff because things don't look interesting is not really timing as he still has much of the BRK portfolio riding on the line; he is not hedging it out or lightening it up etc.

Here are some random bullet points of thoughts that come to mind after going through all of this stuff:

Market Timing

 

  • Right from day one in the partnership, against his dad's and Graham's advice not to get into stocks, he displays independence and disregard for market views, even from people he respects. This is not the beginning of a career of a market timer.
  • Throughout the partnership years, he did go back and forth (in weighting) between general issue holdings and workouts leaning more towards workouts when markets were expensive.  This is not so much market timing as much as moving assets to where they have the best prospective returns.  I think of market timing more as people who get out and sit on cash to wait to get back in, buy puts or put on some other hedge etc.
  • He did liquidate the partnership in 1969, right at the top.  This was obviously partly because the markets were too high.  But on the other hand, he was trying to beat the market by a wide margin and that got harder and harder to do.  I don't know if Buffett would have recommended to people to sell stocks just because they are expensive if someone had a portfolio of stocks they liked.  He did hold onto his BRK shares and bought more, I think, in the early 70's and never sold a share.  He also said that he wanted to slow down, so the unwinding of the partnership was sort of a transition phase for him.
  • In his last letter to his partners, he saw potential returns in the stock market of 6%/year.  He noted that bonds for the first time offered the same prospective returns as stocks, though. And he did recommend an equity manager (Ruane). This expected return isn't too different than what he said before; early on he saw prospective returns of 5% in stocks and kept running his partnership for many years thereafter.
  • Even in BRK (in 1970), he sold all marketable securities with no further plans to buy any in the future.  The sale was to fund the purchase of a bank.  After the purchase there were other areas to deploy capital, so although market valuation may have been a factor here (no doubt a big one), it may not necessarily be the main driver (Buffett wanted to buy whole businesses more than stocks).
  • He bought a bunch of stocks throughout the 1970's responding to the bargain prices. But this isn't really market timing either as he was just responding to market prices that are cheap.
  • Note that he was very aware of inflation and it's ill effects on stocks.  And yet, he kept buying stocks.  This is no action of a market timer.  He even went so far as to question the validity of the legal structure of a bond (sort of a Buffett version of "Bonds are Dead" proclamation, I guess).  But he kept buying stocks.
  • Later in the 1980's, 90's and 00's, he also responds to prices by not buying stocks for lengthy periods.  He buys more private businesses, and holds cash and bonds when nothing else is available.  But it's interesting to note that cash levels are not held for very long (he always needs to hold some cash) as capital is eventually deployed somewhere.
  • This is an important distinction to make:  Buffett will insist on bargain or reasonable prices and a margin of safety to buy a stock, but that is not required to hold a stock.  For permanent holdings, he would not think of selling even if it got substantially overvalued.  Most market timers will sell or get out when prices are no longer attractive or reasonable (and wait in cash.  It's not market timing to get out of something priced reasonably to buy something cheaper).   I think this is an important point and one reason why Buffett has done so well over the years.  Like he says, what if something you like gets fully valued and you sell?  Then what do you buy? You will have to buy something just as good at a lower price.  And if you don't?
  • Buffett would not have his record if he sold out of stocks every time he thought the market or even his holdings was fully priced.  He did regret not selling Coke, but if he sold Coke during the Great Bubble, what other things could he have sold that wouldn't have been good idea?
  • He did say markets were too expensive in 1999 and warned people against expecting 20%+ returns over time.  But this was also not an alarm bell that a crash was coming.  I think he would still have advised people to own an index for the long term as he said he still expected returns over time of 6%/year.   If you sell stocks, then what do you buy?  He is not one to tell you to wait for a correction and get in cheaper later.  At most, he will tell you to gradually buy in over time so as not to put everything in at the very top which would make you feel like an idiot.
  • And he did say Buy American in 2008.  This was sort of a market call, but more a warning to people who were rushing out of stocks in panic.   Also, it was based on sentiment and pricing; he warned people that there is no correlation between economic outlook and stock prices.

Macro

 

  • So, yeah, Buffett had crude oil, silver and foreign currency positions.  He is short long-dated index puts and he was watching crude oil prices when investing in ConocoPhillips.  But these were never really going to drive (or destroy) value at BRK.  Who knows what else there have been that we don't know about!
  • The important thing to remember is that he didn't "tilt" his portfolio over the years according to his macro views.  Most of these things were overlay positions at low cost that had little impact on BRK's other businesses.  The way other typical funds would 'play' these macro themes (and hurt themselves) would be to 'tilt' portfolios to be exposed to these various factors (buy exporters to play weak dollar etc.).  Individuals would buy bear funds or FX ETF's (funded by selling some stocks or other holdings which is very capital inefficient).
  • He never let his macro views get in the way of BRK's main businesses; they had very little impact on BRK's other businesses and stockholdings.
  • If he was wrong, BRK shareholders would have hardly noticed.  Funds with the same view as Buffett that hedged out their equity exposure or bought puts most likely noticed some impact on their returns (if the manager was wrong).  Again, the folks at DRCVX (see here) had the same view as Buffett with respect to the U.S. dollar but had very different investment results over the years.
Anyway, this was a very interesting exercise for me.  Of course, I don't think Buffett is a market timer or macro trader, but if someone wants to call him either or both of those, that's fine with me.  That's not that important.
 
The important thing is to learn from Buffett and understand why he did so well over the years while most others tend not to do so well.  There is a lesson here, but I'm sure others will take away different things than I do and that's totally fine too.
 

網絡轉貼:

我為什麽不做波段和板塊輪動?

有朋友很不解的問我“如果判斷到了市場的拐點變化,為啥不做波段或者版塊輪動,來實現利潤最大化呢?”

沒錯,我就是不做波段,不玩版塊輪動,哪怕我似乎猜對了下一階段行情的演變,依然如此。

為什麽呢?原因如下: 

 

第一,長期來看根本得不償失。

我覺得做過一陣子波段以及板塊輪動,有一定曆練的人,恐怕都會承認一個現實:在波段(或抓輪動)這個事兒上,你曾經有過多麽英明的操作,就一定也曾經出現過同樣愚蠢的決定。長期來看,英明與愚蠢的比率不會相差太多(這還是說的比較客氣的),而還要在這個基礎上確保英明的時候一定是大倉位,愚蠢的時候一定是小倉位,這種盈利模式的難度是不言而喻的。

 

請注意,這裏的“愚蠢的決定”可未必指的是虧錢。很多次我的波段或者版塊切換都當時看起來挺聰明的,但往往再過些日子後回過頭去看當時的行為就無比愚蠢了(比如波段本身成功,但是賣出後大牛股再也買不回來了;或者換到別的版塊個股上確實賺錢了,但若幹月、年後回頭一看,當初騎過的笨驢早已飛上九重天了)。

 

就一次來結算,很容易讓人信服“波段才是王道”,因為確實高拋低吸成功了啊,差價那是實實在在的啊。但很多個“短期的正確”恰恰會導致一個“長期的錯誤”----對這一點醒悟的早晚,實際上已經是對長期的投資績效能否成功的一個重要的散戶分水嶺。

 

第二,我賺錢的主要方式是什麽,投資回報的驅動是什麽,這個無比清楚:是企業經營的結果。

即便波段操作,版塊輪動確實是條路子,是某些人的康莊大道,那條路也不是我要走的。人,總要學會取舍,總要知道一個真理:這個世界的便宜不能讓我一個人都占上。試圖擁有一切,隻會失去更多。將股票投資作為擁有了一部分的生意來看待,雖然辛苦,但是又很踏實。雖然可能短期慢一點,但是長期來看回報又極其驚人。

 

那有沒有可能波段操作與企業基本麵合二為一呢?這當然是個“很聰明”的想法。但想到這點的“聰明人”恐怕實在太多了。我們不討論為啥很難,我們隻問一個問題:那些能夠將企業分析做到一定深度的成功的投資者,是傻子嗎?顯然不是。那麽這些被證明的市場的優秀因子,為何普遍都不去做這個“是個聰明人就會想到”的遊戲呢?----對這一點想沒想透,實際上成為了能否實現優秀的長期投資績效的第二個散戶分水嶺。

 

第三,對於市場偏好的轉變這種客觀存在,不做短期行為也可以有不錯的應對方式。

比如在持倉組合上不要過於集中在1,2個非常具有相關性的行業區間上,在持有的過程中,根據市場價格與企業價值偏離的程度進行一定程度的持倉調整等等,都是可行的(但不是必須的)。當認同第二條的時候,實際上這第三條隻不過是個優化而已,是某種熨平波動幅度的對衝措施而已,做得好當然很好,實在懶得做,並不會對結果有太大的影響。

 

最後還是強調,這裏的“波段,版塊輪換”指的是短期操作,以及一種投資上的原則。寬泛點兒來看,價值投資也是某種意義上的大波段,但顯然並不可同日而語。而投資的原則性,則是更突出主旨和核心,但並不一定如雷池般不可逾越半步,更不是某種牛角尖式的強迫症----就像不酗酒是個原則,但並不代表極少的特殊時刻可以多喝兩杯一樣。

從一句有哲理的話看投資精髓

(2011-01-17 08:23:42)
最近一個網友的回複我覺得很有韻味:價值投資就是在相對正確的時間以大致正確的價格買入絕對正確的目標。

 

仔細想想,確實是很富有哲理的一句話。

首先有道理的地方在於,這句話沒有將價值投資極端化偏激化,比如“好公司高於一切”或者“隻在熊市底部買入”。而是綜合涉及到了時機,估值以及標的選擇3個主要的方麵。

 

其次,這句話對於這3個要素的關係排列的非常有層次。從句式分析,最終指向的是“絕對正確的目標”。這完全符合“將投資視作一筆生意”這一價值投資的最首要的原則。當然,“絕對正確”是永遠不可能做到的,但是為了說明選股的苛刻性,將選股的高標準以“絕對正確”來進行強調和與前2個要素進行強化,我個人認為是符合邏輯的,這也完全符合格雷厄姆“投資最大的危險不是為一個好企業支付了高的價格,而是在市場的景氣時期買入了素質低劣的企業”的論斷。另一方麵,選股與估值不同,更加的具有“科學性”的一麵,無論是競爭優勢分析,還是財務分析,其實都是很專業的學科了。這也符合“更接近可以絕對正確”的定位(隻是無限接近,而不可能完全達到)。 

 

對於時機和價格,這句話的定義也非常有道理。市場的波動是客觀事實,這就像我們大多數時候無法精確捕捉和預測到這種波動一樣,也是客觀事實。前一個客觀事實告訴我們,利用市場的愚蠢是可行的;而後一個客觀事實又告訴我們,試圖經常性甚至日常性的來捕捉這種波動又是不可行的。所以,反映到投資哲學上,就是買入的時間隻需要是在“相對正確”就可以了(賣出其實也一樣),而不可能做到“頂和底”以及“每一次”這種級別的絕對正確。所謂的相對正確的時間,從整體的角度可以理解為“長期來看明顯處於係統性的低穀期(但未必是底部)時”,作為個股的相對正確時間則可以理解為“長期來看其明顯處於內在價值未被正確識別而導致的市場暫時性的冷落時,或者是長期競爭優勢牢靠的企業由於受到短期的利空打擊的時期”。

 

用“大致正確”對應“買入價格”即是模糊的正確遠勝精確的錯誤的精髓,也是估值的藝術性所決定的。毫無疑問,這裏的“大致”指的是相對於企業內在價值而言。格雷厄姆說過:精確的指出企業內在價值是多少是完全不可能的。依據一個合理的假設得到對企業價值估計的一個範圍區間就很不錯了。比如巴菲特當年對中石油的投資,隻用了很短的時間判斷“這個企業起碼值1000億,而現在是明顯低估的”。

 

在買入價格這個問題上,大多數人會犯2個極端性的錯誤:要麽試圖精確到買入就漲的大底部,要麽根本忽略安全邊際而隨心所欲---要理解到“談好公司的時候不忽略合理的價格”與“談安全邊際的時候不忽略好公司的溢價特性”,何其難!巴菲特說過“你沒有必要等到最低價才去買,隻要低於你所認定的價值就可以了”。如果我們能在買入時,本著“先進行嚴密而合理的假設和推理”的原則為先(沒有這個先決條件,請不要談什麽價格,什麽價格都是錯誤的,本質上就是賭博),並且遵循“低於我所認定價值”的“大致正確”來買入,那麽我想就可以免除大多數的迷茫了。

 

如果,我們能不偏激的將“時機,價格,目標”3個要素協調考慮(而不是一談時機就拿偉大的公司來搪塞,一談高價值的企業就以任何價格買入都是對的來壯膽。這種用費雪的話來挑戰格雷厄姆,再用格雷厄姆的話來挑戰林奇,然後再用林奇的話挑戰巴菲特的遊戲,隻適合大專辯論賽,而不是投資),並本著“相對正確,大致正確,絕對正確”的相互關係和級次和判斷權重來予以執行。那麽,當我們的一個投資組合中的所有持倉,都是本著這樣的原則來構建的,那麽,成功的投資還會是一種“浮雲”嗎?

“賺錢”靠刻苦“財富”靠高度

我以前很愛用一個“將軍和排長”的比喻來說明投資思維模式的重要性。

在排長看來,每一步的後退都是失敗,每一步的推進都是勝利。而在將軍看來,一城一池的得失都是次要的,重要的是戰役級目標的最終達成和總體戰局上的可控。高度的不同,對於結果認知和行為指導的差別何等的巨大。這就像我們今天在市場上麵臨的局麵一樣。

 

我們可能無法完全脫離開市場,但一定應該高度警惕“埋頭苦幹”帶來的短視。如果僅僅是為了“賺點兒錢”,那麽無所謂,刻苦努力也可以搞定。但如果目標是“財富自由”,那麽沒有一定的思維高度可能是很難做到的。 

所謂的高度並非指張口閉口的“宏觀經濟,國際格局”,而是能否跳出眼前的“現狀”來思考一些更具有前瞻性的東西。而要想看得遠必然需要站得高,比如我們在看待財富問題的時候,是以人生整體規劃的角度來思考的,還是僅僅是1年2年這種零碎計劃?

 

就像現在投資麵臨的局麵。經濟前景一片模糊,房地產泡沫的影響無法預料,民營企業的生存處境艱難等等,似乎到處都讓人心驚肉跳。但如果從一個人生財富規劃的角度來看,什麽才是最該讓我們心驚肉跳的?答案也許是:一次次的漠視這個世界給我們的機會,卻從未敢真正追求和堅持過一次。

 

巴菲特在2008年10月的《紐約時報》中如此說:“我無法預計股市的短期波動,對於股票在1個月或1年內的漲跌我不敢妄言。但有一種可能,即在市場恢複信心或經濟複蘇前,股市會上漲,而且可能是大漲。因此,如果你想等到知更鳥報春,那春天就快結束了。

     回顧一下曆史:在經濟大蕭條時期,道瓊斯指數在1932年7月8日跌至41點的曆史新低,到1933年3月弗蘭克林·羅斯福(Franklin Roosevelt)總統上任前,經濟依然在惡化,但到那時,股市卻漲了30%。第二次世界大戰初期,美軍在歐洲和太平洋遭遇不利。1942年4月,美國股市跌至穀底,當時距離盟軍扭轉戰局還很遠。同樣,20世紀80年代初,盡管經濟繼續下滑,通貨膨脹加劇,但卻是購買股票的最佳時機。簡而言之,壞消息是投資者的最好朋友,它能讓你以較低代價下注美國的未來。長期而言,股市整體是趨於利好的。20世紀,美國經曆了2次世界大戰、代價高昂的軍事衝突、大蕭條、十餘次經濟衰退和金融危機、石油危機、流行疾病和總統因醜聞而下台等事件,但道指卻從66點漲到了11497點。也許有人會認為,在一個持續發展的世紀裏,投資者幾乎不可能虧錢。但確實有些投資者虧了,因為他們總是在感覺良好時買入,在市場充斥著恐慌時賣出。
    今天,擁有現金或現金等價物的人可能感覺良好,但他們可能過於樂觀了,因為他們選擇了一項可怕的長期資產,沒有任何回報且肯定會貶值。”

 

自2010年10月市場各主要版塊和指數先後見頂以來,整個市場已經下跌了整整1年,中小板綜、醫藥等指數的跌幅高達35%-40%,滬深300和上證50更是自09年11月就提前見頂並至今下跌37—42%。目前大盤股的估值普遍隻有10倍左右,中小板及醫藥中確定性較高的優秀成長股估值也大幅擠掉了水分。經濟的前景當然具有不確定性,但這種風險是否已經有很大程度的提前反映了呢?

 






既然都是普通人,在市場一片蕭條之際的恐慌和胡思亂想其實都是正常反映。不同的是,有些人可以在此時依然保持理性,試著去想想“更大的局”。有時候,就是這麽“高一點點”往往就是很多事情的分水嶺。當我們看待一個問題的時候,可以試著讓自己的思想飄出體外,上到空中再來俯視,這個時候思路往往更加客觀。高度,不僅僅是從更長遠的戰略的角度來審視問題為切入點,也包括了對事物發展客觀規律的理解,比如:中國整體上處於一個什麽發展水平?在可見的未來社會經濟發展的趨勢大概率的是什麽?這一趨勢反映到投資層麵必然帶來的影響是什麽?具體投資的成敗又主要取決於什麽?等等。

 

當然,機會不是說把握就能把握得住的,就像上麵那幾個問題,如果現在再來思考會不會有點兒晚呢?機會隻垂青在沒有機會的日子裏默默的積累自己,提高自己把握機會能力的人。識別什麽是好的企業、大量的閱讀和思考、耐心的等待,這一切看不見的努力,總有一天會以看得見的形式表現出來,不是嗎?

 

無論是在證券投資行業,還是實業領域。我們可以仔細的觀察那些成功者,大多不僅僅是努力而已。努力是優秀的品質,但僅有努力距離成功還遠遠不夠。很多“產業瘋子”的行為之所以不被理解,實際上是因為他們的視野高度遠超一般人的世界。沒有思維和視野的高度,就不可能有遠大的抱負,自然也就很難有強大的堅持或壓力之下的重大抉擇。人生的很多不同,是否就是因為這些而漸行漸遠的呢?

 

在08年很多人驚呼要是1664買入就好了,在2009年很多人遺憾沒有早點兒意識到大消費企業的機會,在2010年很多人抱怨好的公司為什麽總是那麽貴...而到2012年,2013年...2015年的時候,你是願意繼續做一個抱怨的人,還是願意自豪的說一聲“我曾做了一次正確的決定”呢?

對長期價值投資的一些碎片性總結

長線本身絕對不是價值投資,但價值投資基本上肯定是長線。

 

長線投資目標選擇中最重要的指標是什麽?答案是,成長的確定性。

 

長線投資者既是風險厭惡者,又是最貪婪的獵人。

 

最堅定的長線投資者恰恰以前都曾是短線投機的老戰士。

 

長線投資要懂得選擇,卻更需要懂得放棄。

 

如果你買入的時候正好別人都在不屑一顧,恭喜你,你有可能獲得了一個長線投資的安全氣囊。

 

長線投資講究的是不過多關注股票的K線,但你如果以為買入後就是睡大覺等著蘋果掉下來砸到腦袋,那麽誤會就大了。

 

長線投資堅持起來最困難的是前2年,95%的人是在這個過程中下車的。

 

一個正確的長線投資永遠比你想象的還要艱難,而回報卻又總是比你想象的還要驚人。

 

越早開始長期投資越有利,晚1年悟道,你原本的10倍股也許隻剩下5倍了。

 

短線投機的人最愛問“是多少?”,長線價值投資的人總是問“為什麽?”

 

短線投機的人有聽不完的消息和傳聞,長線價值投資人有看不完的報告和資料。

 

遇到大利空,短線投機者驚慌失措,長線價值投資者眉開眼笑。

 

短線投機者買入後期望立刻漲1倍,長線投資者期望買入後再跌30%。

 

07年一群人錯誤的理解了長期價值投資,哭了08一整年。09年同樣的一群人再次錯誤的理解了長期價值投資,也許這次要後悔一生。

 

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