Thank you in advance for your advice.
My friend's son is in dilemma to apply for ED for either Duke or John Hopkins for Pre-med (Biology or Neuroscience) to improve his admission chances. He is Florida resident and he has very very high chance that he will have full ride in Florida (benacquisto scholarship, full ride to UF/FSU/USF) He is valedictorian in very competitive school with perfect SAT score and tons of extracurriculars and research. If he gets into one of this, he has to pay almost $400K for all four years of undergrad (not eligible for need based funds and his family needs to take loan upto 200K).
I do not want to be biased in making him commit to Duke and told him will get opinion of other people. Lot of people are telling save that money for Medical school, since you need to pay for 8 years if u get to private college for Undergrad.
Probably some people here are in similar situation, want to pass on your thoughts. Thanks.
Kristin White Janger
Top contributor
Take the full ride to UF and then apply to Duke and Hopkins for medical school. $200k in loans for undergrad plus loans for med school!?! That would be a brutal way to start adult life.
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17h
Inam Talo Habboosh
Kristin White Janger Agee!
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Carol T Jackson
Kristin White Janger Agree 100%
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17h
Susana MacLean
Agree 100%.
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17h
Susan L. Chang
UF is consistently ranked as a top top school. I would save that money! My daughter is in the Fin Tech masters program at Duke and went to UF (also lots of merit based scholarships). No regrets.
May be an image of text
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17h
Radha K Kota
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+1
wah!! Good to know WSJ placing UF ahead of Duke? crazy!!! And lot of liberal arts colleges too.
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Jackie Lasarte
Radha K Kota that rankings had a lot of different criteria’s, for example diversity which Duke didn’t score as high as other universities. The US News and World Report college rankings comes out on 9/18. If finances are a factor given it’s such a long career UF would be the obvious choice. We’re from Miami so we know a lot about UF. It’s a great school although I believe there’s no comparison to Duke. Our daughter wouldn’t of changed a thing looking back applying ED made senior year so much more enjoyable knowing she was in by December 15. UF will let them know early in December as well without having to apply ED which they don’t have. We also visited John’s Hopkins and it’s a completely different experience there.
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2h
Kimberly Lawton Koon
Jackie Lasarte, actually UF gives decisions right around Valentine's Day but would be nice if it was that early.
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Claudia Baldassano
Susan L. Chang
Sure UF is a good school but this Wall
street journal ranking is ridiculous. It’s based on how much one earns right after college -really? So if you get a Fulbright or attend graduate school, this works against you in terms of rankings???
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Cathy Salvatore
Susan L. Chang thanks for sharing!
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Reply to Susan L. Chang…
Emily Kaye
Take the full ride unless he thinks he can get scholarship money. Don’t do ED. See what $$ he is offered. JMO
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Radha K Kota
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+1
Emily Kaye Yeah I think that is really good point since his state college fully covered.
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Teddi Siegel
You have some big decisions to make. Two of our grandchildren went to Duke. Our grandson graduated last May and our granddaughter is now a senior. They would have stayed for 30 years if that was possible. They loved every minute the spent at Duke. They received the highest quality of education and had the best time there.
If you can afford it,
Go DUKE…..
Best of luck to your son. He sounds like a very accomplished young man.
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15h
Jackie Lasarte
Teddi Siegel completely agree with you! Our daughter would of stayed forever if she could.
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2h
Reply to Emily Kaye…
Susann Torvalds
My daughter loved Duke. It was her first choice and didn't even want to think about other schools. However when she graduated she said that it was kind of a foolish way to spend money because she thought she could've gotten as good of an education at any state school. Also as a parent I realized that in a state school there is much more opportunity for research.
I want to add that she chose Duke after interviewing students at her top 4 schools. She chose it for the people.
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17h
Edited
Susana MacLean
Susann Torvalds Not necessarily. A lot of small liberal arts colleges have great research opportunities for undergraduates because there are no grad students competing with them for research assistant jobs. The same is true at smaller private universities that have a significant undergrad vs. grad student population.
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Radha K Kota
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+1
Susana MacLean I think you are very right about competition for research opportunities. It seems UF Honors + URSP (University Research Scholars Program) comes with <30 students for most honors classes and a guided research program with a assigned mentor from Year 1. I think these top public schools are doing this to compete for top students with private colleges.
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17h
Radha K Kota
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+1
Susann Torvalds Thank you. I think that is the reason he is doing this research.
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17h
Reply to Susann Torvalds…
John Ungvarsky
Part 1 of 2
The comments to this post were fascinating. Here’s my two cents.
I went through the college decision process with four kids and probably visited two dozen schools. Some things that I learned along the way:
My views, evaluations, impressions, priorities were often very different from my kids. We are different people from different generations who value things differently.
A 16/17 year has almost zero frame of reference. They don’t know what they don’t know. As much as parents would like to believe that they have influenced their children’s opinions, most of their impressions about various colleges have come from conversations with their friends, who know as little as they do!
It is incredibly important that they visit colleges to begin learning and filling that void. See what’s really out there, what attracts them, what environment they want to be in for four years.
After visiting 4/5/6 colleges they really began to understand what was important to them and what didn’t matter. It was eye opening/ mind boggling to me when we left what I thought were phenomenal visits to Princeton & Harvard when my son immediately/decisively said “I would never go here!” (for two completely different reasons). I had been ready to sign him and myself up!
IMO this young man would be better served to immediately go do Admission tours at 3-4 Florida colleges that are relatively local to him, even if they aren’t at the top of his or his parents current list. Just to begin building a personal frame of reference. And he should immediately schedule the same at Duke and Hopkins asap.
Of all of the colleges visited, Duke stood way out for what I call their common sense, positive culture. Most colleges are overly bureaucratic, stuck in their ways and move with glacial speed.
Duke has a culture that recognizes issues, evaluates, and takes decisive effective action, on issues big and small.
Early in my son’s first year, the Duke school newspaper did an article about the inequities in the meal plan. It had to do with number of meals per week and making sure that all students received enough food and proper nutrition.
This same article at hundreds of other colleges would have resulted in bureaucratic lip service with no meaningful results. At Duke, in less than 2 weeks the President announced that they had studied the issue, announced immediate meal plan changes and shocking to me, Duke opened up the coffers and deposited money into many students Bursar accounts to eliminate any inequities. Duke took swift meaningful action. If anything they erred on the side of doing more than they maybe needed to.
This type of common sense action oriented decision making is the norm at Duke. A few years later their was vandalism at the Duke Chapel against Confederate statues as that socially conscious issue spiked in America. Duke immediately removed controversial statues that were the powder keg while they studied the issue. They made detailed announcements later after more thorough research and organizational reflection.
Duke is just so unique in their organizational culture. It comes from the top down and is pervasive in every aspect. Harvard was the only other college that seemed to have a similar culture. But we never investigated Harvard any deeper because after his visit my son took it off his list.
For many years Duke & UPenn have been ranked near each other, some years even tied. But their organizational cultures couldn’t be more different. UPenn was a finalist in my own college search, I’ve spent my entire life the area and UPenn was even a large client of mine for a decade. So I’ve been privy to some of the organization’s inner workings, thought processes and decision making processes. Rankings make them seem equal but UPenn is no Duke. UPenn is the largest employer and landowner in Philadelphia. UPenn is flush with cash and a huge endowment. They have the means to make the UPenn experience whatever they want. But their priority is mostly financial. A student at UPenn is likely to need five years to finish, not four. And UPenn is known for its high pressure academic environment. Year after year they grapple unsuccessfully with mental health issues among both students and faculty. Suicides have been common for years in both groups.
My point obviously is that published rankings can be meaningless compared to what is important to a prospective student.
The Duke Admissions visit stood out among dozens of others for several reasons, all related to the Duke culture.
In designing the structure of the academic curriculum, a Duke priority is that all students complete their bachelor’s in four years. Most colleges these days make that almost impossible. (Don’t believe college marketing. During tours talk to students to learn the truth.)
Duke knows that every student who is accepted and chooses Duke is talented. Duke’s priority is to put them in an environment to succeed. And they do that in specific ways.
Undergrad students do not have to declare a major until their 4th semester. Before that they are encouraged to take any and every class that interests them. And they aren’t penalized for doing so like many colleges where major requirements are so tight that taking a variety of classes early, would force a 5th year. (Engineering majors might be one exception where it would be important to take some specific courses in years 1&2 along with other classes of interest to be able to finish in 4 years.)
Duke says that about 80% of students will change their major from what they initially thought it would be on day1 of their first year. Duke wants all students to find their passion in life and to pursue it. The 20% that knew it from the beginning, that’s great. Duke’s purposely flexible curriculum allows 80% to taste a variety and pursue what excites them. At other colleges they might never experience something else or may be stuck in a rigid curriculum that essentially forces them to stay on a path that may not be best for them.
This is a very smart strategy for Duke. Duke admits an incredibly talented group every year brimming with potential. If while at Duke, close to 100% of them can discover and follow their passion, their chances of reaching their potential and having subsequent successful careers and lives is so much greater.
If you are still awake , there’s more in Part 2 —>
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4h
John Ungvarsky
Part 2 of 2
Many of the comments to this post were predicated on the assumption that the student would no doubt follow by going to medical school. I would caution that that isn’t a certainty. He may change his mind and pursue a different path at some point. He can choose to go to medical school after attending any of the undergrad schools mentioned. I suggest that the focus be on him finding the college that’s best for him right now.
Another unique thing about Duke is the emphasis on quality vs quantity in learning. A typical schedule is four classes per semester rather than 5 classes (in 11 out of 12 semesters). Obviously classes are challenging. Duke has found a four class load to be more productive overall academically.
This young man’s high school credentials certainly sound great. But it’s important to understand that for Duke, Stanford, the Ivy’s, etc just about every prospective student application reads like that. The things listed are part of misinformation that has proliferated for decades about top college admission. Yes, those things are important but they might give one a 10% chance of acceptance.
There have been articles and books written by actual admissions decision makers at top colleges. Remember that top colleges are competitive with each other in the short and long term. They want to be perceived as “special”.
So top colleges want to admit prospects who have demonstrated that they are special, who are more likely to be successful in their careers. A long list of high school volunteer work actually doesn’t count that much.
For example, top colleges get a number of applicants who want to be journalists. Those who have edited their high school newspapers are a dime a dozen. A student who was accepted at six top colleges also wrote a weekly column for a local newspaper and wrote a blog with a large following about timely youth issues and bridging the gaps between generations. She clearly demonstrated her passion and potential for long term success above other applicants.
Many years ago the Ivy’s, Duke, Stanford, etc all realized that they were severely limiting their talent pool of applicants if ability to pay tuition was a criteria. They moved to a blind admissions model to admit students with the most talent and chance for long term success. They poured money into financial aid with the idea that anyone who was accepted could afford to attend regardless of their family’s financial circumstances. No top college wants to miss out on the next Einstein being an alum just because he or she was born into a low income family.
If you read the websites of top colleges today they all sound the same. So if your kid got accepted to all of them their out of pocket cost to attend should all be the same, right? Wrong!
The top colleges all make different levels of financial commitment to this philosophy. The amount of money that they provide is based on their own definition of financial need and how much they claim that a family should be able to contribute. Sometimes that becomes obvious by using the college website financial aid calculator. But often there is more information to be had if one digs deeper into all of the line items.
The Ivy’s all like to put a stake in the ground and say that their Financial Aid offer is etched in stone, take it or leave it. But there is a pecking order. Harvard generally makes the largest Ivy financial aid offers. So an Ivy at the lower end will often match a proven offer from an Ivy that’s higher in the pecking order. It’s common knowledge to apply to Harvard or Princeton even if you want to go to a different Ivy, because it’s leverage to get more financial aid from the school you want to attend.
As my son narrowed his list of college choices down, I researched deeper into actual out of pocket costs. You gotta really dig into “estimated” cost line items that colleges provide. Often overblown. I had multiple phone conversations with every college financial aid office that was on the short list. The differences between them became very apparent.
I did a giant spreadsheet that compiled all of the information that I had gathered and gleaned from many sources to determine out of pocket costs. Duke was by far the most generous with Financial Aid. Again with the Duke common sense, long term approach. Duke’s out of pocket cost was less than any other private or public college that my son considered.
The financial information in the post that four years at Duke would total $400k requiring $200k in student loans, I believe is incorrect. Most of the comments were based on those numbers as fact.
Google “Duke costs” and the annual estimate is $80k, for a four year total of $320k. And colleges purposely inflate that number a bit so as not to underestimate.
Every family’s financial situation is different. But I know from personal experience that if annual cost was $80k, it would be very unlikely that my son would need to take out $40k in loans. In general that level of financial aid from Duke would mean that I had significant income and savings to afford to contribute a significant amount. If he was borrowing $40/year in student loans that would mean that I intended to contribute zero towards his education.
I’m just saying to take this friend’s numbers said in conversation with a grain of salt. In my experience they seem exaggerated.
Hope some of this is helpful!
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4h
Radha K Kota
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+1
John Ungvarsky Thank for your detailed thoughts and advice. Just curious what was reason on your son's decision on "Princeton & Harvard" ? In this situation, this family probably wait and see options rather than ED, as this is not just 4 years of undergrad but 8 years of private University commitment. Private medical college is also around $80K/year and very rare you get scholarship to medical college with admission itself being very competitive.
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1h
John Ungvarsky
Radha K Kota
Haha, according to my son the absolutely beautiful Princeton campus looked too much like the area in Southern NJ where he grew up so he wouldn’t feel like he had left home if he went to college there. I didn’t agree at all but only his perception mattered.
He liked Harvard but he nixed all New England colleges after he saw the annual snowfall numbers. I wish he had looked up the snowfall stats before I took him on a five college tour of New England, but I think he would have wanted to see what he might be missing anyway. He had a great basis for comparison when he visited Duke a couple months later.
I know the family of the student being discussed is convinced that he’s going to Medical School which is fine. I just know of so many kids who also thought that upon entering college, but their plans changed over four years time. That’s why I’d focus on the four year decision, rather than assume it’s an eight year decision.
I’d also encourage them to strongly consider early decision if he has an undergrad favorite. The odds of being accepted are much greater under early decision.
We know a HS valedictorian with a similar HS resume who did not apply early decision and was subsequently not accepted at Duke. He attended his second choice college in New England and is now in med school. He may have attended Duke if he had committed to Duke in an early decision application.
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Reply to John Ungvarsky…
John Ungvarsky
Short Version:
If it was my kid with those circumstances, based on details presented in my longer comments, I’d take him on Admissions visits to at least 3 Florida colleges and Duke & Hopkins. Then if he has developed a favorite, I’d tell him to apply early decision to that one.
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3h
Radha K Kota
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+1
John Ungvarsky Doubt once you see Duke ...you will like other colleges
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Reply to John Ungvarsky…
Melissa Melissa
Top contributor
Has he considered Wash U? They just implemented this no-loan policy, effective starting the kids applying now
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Radha K Kota
Author
Top contributor
+1
Melissa Melissa I think so. But no loans is really for people with need based. Mostly family income of $100K+ is on your own.
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Karen Rosenthal Broms
Melissa Melissa I love WashU. And I like this news. But the way I read that is federal loans - not all loans - will be scholarship/grants. On line calculators should help clarify what COA would be.
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16h
Reply to Melissa Melissa…
Kim Reed
For what it’s worth, I turned down U of F’s highest scholarship (full ride plus other perks) and Harvard to go to Duke. I took out loans to pay for most of my Duke education and paid them off in less than 10 years. I would do it again 100 times out of 100. There is NO PLACE as great as Duke undergrad.
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16h
Julia Lund
Iron sharpens iron. There is no place like Duke. My son chose Duke, class of 2024, accepted at many great private universities. My daughter is at UF Honors and Research, class of 2025, same credentials as my son, not accepted at any of the same private universities. UF has been fun, but it’s not Duke or Hopkins. I would have gone to the ends of the earth, borrowed any amount of money, and lived in a box, if I my daughter had been accepted at Duke.
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Edited
Susana MacLean
Julia Lund I think what complicates this family’s decision is that paying for Duke would not be the end of their education costs. Medical school costs $80-$100k per year for three years, plus a few very low paid years of residency. We’re talking up to half a million dollars of debt, potentially, before the student begins to earn a real income. Much as my son has loved Duke, and it has been the best place for him, I would not have had him attend if he were facing that kind of debt before his career even started.
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15h
Julia Lund
Susana MacLean I worked with a resident a few years ago who went to Duke for his undergrad and Tufts for medical school. He had no regrets. I guess it’s a personal decision/ preference in the end…
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14h
Susana MacLean
Julia Lund But did he incur half a million dollars in debt in the process? My son’s girlfriend is a pre-med at Duke. Her family can afford to pay for her education without going into debt, so it’s a different decision for them.
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14h
Melissa Jia
Top contributor
Susana MacLean if you’re poor John Hopkins will be free
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5h
Susana MacLean
Melissa Jia Yes, I’m aware. That’s terrific. Duke awards generous financial aid, too, though not as much as JHU. The kid in question doesn’t qualify for financial aid, according to the OP.
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Kimberly Lawton Koon
Susana, he could also change his major and career path during undergrad where it doesn't require extra schooling. Such big decisions, but Regular Decision seems to be the way to go.
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Susana MacLean
Kimberly Lawton Koon Agreed. A lot of would be Pre-meds change their minds in college.
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Reply to Susana MacLean…
Reply to Julia Lund…
Dorian Dodds
Visit the schools. We did. Duke, for us, was the obvious choice.
Your values and your kid’s (we sent twins) will align with the right place.
Duke was literally our last visit from the west coast. The people there are the reasons the twins went to Duke.
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18h
Spero Karas
Short answer- UF. I have children at Duke, Vanderbilt, and UGA and they all appear to be thriving. But I’m paying $150K/year for the first two schools and less than $15K/year for UGA. Can’t imagine my kids taking on that kind of debt.
Having trained 100s of young surgeons at 2 prestigious medical centers, their undergrad education is the least relevant to who they become as surgeons. We have a saying in medicine, “they only remember the last place you trained”. So your residency and fellowship will be more important than your medical school. And all three are more important than your undergraduate institution.
UF is an international powerhouse and the flagship institution for one of the largest and wealthiest states in the US. While almost 2/3 of Duke students claim to be suffering from mental illness.
If he takes care of business at UF, he’ll get into a prestigious med school, which will open doors for top residencies.
Sounds like a bright kid! Wish him health and happiness wherever he ends up!
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Anju Grover Lashkari
Spero Karas totally agree with you
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Kelly Mofield
Spero Karas totally agree and my son is in med school now and loved Duke. There are no full rides to med school. Take the money now.
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9h
Reply to Spero Karas…
Claudia Baldassano
I think Duke would be a much better undergraduate experience than Hopkins. Duke has just as many research opportunities as Hopkins but is a more well-rounded experience.
Going to a prestigious undergraduate such as Duke or Hopkins will continue to open doors for your son throughout his career!
If he does well in undergraduate, there are many medical schools that have great scholarships (such as Penn) and NYU is tuition- free.
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17h
Barbara Lentz
A couple points: The pre health counseling at duke and Hopkins are far better with better results for getting students into med school and supporting experience & portfolio to succeed. The ama has some research on undergrad colleges. And second,
The current state government in Florida is undermining its public schools and faculty are leaving; whatever you see today at fl state schools may not be the same in 2 years, including the student body population. Some higher Ed publications are publishing numbers about student applicant pool. Stats are eye opening
MyTuition has good predictive # for grant/aid mix; if a student can get in RD then in a position to shop a bit.
Finally- lots of kids plan to go to med school before college starts, very small % attend med school b/c passion leads other directions. What else might the student want to study? At duke or Hopkins it is a different experience
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Edited
Denise Garland Curd
Top contributor
$200K in loans for undergrad and interested in med school? Absolutely not. It's one thing if they have the funds or are eligible for financial aid - but I would never advise someone to take on that kind of debt load, particularly when they're facing hundreds of thousands more for med school.
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Susana MacLean
First of all, Duke and Johns Hopkins are very, very different environments and cultures. Both are excellent universities, of course. Your student will get plenty of research and clinical opportunites at either of them. But I think that's probably true at UF, as well. Your son could apply for one of the merit scholarships at Duke. They are super difficult to get, but if he is incredibly accomplished, he might have a shot. I think the scholarships pay full tuition or even give full rides. https://ousf.duke.edu/merit-scholarships/
Merit Scholarships | Office of University Scholars and Fellows
OUSF.DUKE.EDU
Merit Scholarships | Office of University Scholars and Fellows
Merit Scholarships | Office of University Scholars and Fellows
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Susana MacLean
I have to correct myself. Students cannot directly apply for these scholarships. They are automatically considered for them based on their applications for admission.
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Reply to Susana MacLean…
Anders Roede
Similar to discussions we had with our kids. We are in California and I encouraged our son to choose Berkeley or UCLA as the value is so good for CA residents. We visited lots of schools, but once we visited Duke, his mind was made up... he said he felt home. He got in regular decision. He is now a senior and knows we're paying a lot more but he doesn't regret it at all as he loves attending Duke. Our daughter was 2 years behind him and once she visited him there, her mind was made up too. She applied ED and is now a sophomore at Duke. Not cheap, but a fabulous education and I feel they are making the most of their opportunities there.
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Edited
Sherri Wang
Anders Roede Same situation here, we are CA residents, my son chose Duke over Beverly and UCLA without any financial aid. Duke college experience is nowhere can compare.
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11h
Reply to Anders Roede…
Dalmir S Grewal
My son gave up several scholarships to attend Duke. It’s expensive but it’s an investment in your child’s future. I have no regrets and don’t mind paying the tuition.
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Niv Biswas
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My daughter back then, gave up UNC scholarship to attend Duke but my son chose UNC over any other (before my daughter). He eventually did his PhD from Harvard med school and has then co-founded and is the CEO of a venture backed Biotech company. Daughter after graduating from Duke, went to Duke med school, did plenty of research, published a lot and is now doing Residency in Plastic surgery in MI.
Both kids doing great and are at their high point in their post college career.
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9h
Edited
DrSheetal Desai
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Niv Biswas Totally agree!!!
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9h
Niv Biswas
Admin
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DrSheetal Desai doesn’t matter which school they go to, they should have the passion to pursue their dreams.
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9h
Reply to Niv Biswas…
Lydia Segui
Just to be completely objective, I am fairly certain that the majority of students who attend Duke University were probably in a very similar scenario… top of their class, full ride to a state school, scholarship opportunities, etc. I am willing to bet they picked Duke for a good reason. Good luck.
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9h
Anne Tallett
I’m biased but Duke all the way. Many will say to save your money, but you cant compare undergrad experiences (we have 2 other daughters that went to other schools and not the same level as Duke).
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Turi Kozel
We were told this by a professor at USC: Med schools filter the applicants first by their college GPAs and their MCAT scores. Then they look at everything else. They do not look at how difficult it was to get the grades. So as far as getting accepted into a good med school, the higher the GPA the better.
Usually it is easier to get those grades from a state school that is not as competitive academically. Of course the trade off might be that he may not be as prepared for the MCAT as he would be from an academically rigorous school like Duke or Hopkins.
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5h
Edited
Lisa Thomas
He should pick the undergraduate school that is the right fit- a mentor told my son it’s “cardio-gastric” meaning you know in your heart and gut where you should be. I went to Stanford undergrad and UF for med school and had more loans at UF with minimal at Stanford. He may change his mind about med school or find an alternative (MD/PhD program for example) that’s completely funded. The college experience is so different at all three of those places. Also- he can apply to UF and ED at Duke because UF is not private and always decide in the spring if he prefers one over the other. You can get out of ED without penalty if the reason is financial.
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8h
Melissa Jia
Top contributor
I love Duke but John Hopkins is world renowned. He needs a lot of extra curriculars that he’s really good at. Also probably at least 1550 on SAT. If he’s started his own business or charity that’d help. So would winning ISEF or Regeneron. If he’s only got the grades go with Duke. It’s an awesome school.
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5h
Edited
Karen Isrow Kjaerulff
Unless it is not a financial hardship, go to a Florida school. Yes-the undergrad will not be the same rigor, but at $80k+ a year you need to weigh that.
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2h
Laura Lovato
It's a tough one for sure. A full ride can't be beat. Is there possibly for a partial at Duke or hopkins? That may help level the field
In the end I think a motivated person will do well wherever they go. Duke helps because of the connections and the opportunities for research etc for undergrads. But it's really where the student feels the most connection - they need to be happy and settled for those four years too - without breaking the bank!
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5h
Sarah Lieber Cartwright
As a former Duke Biology major and current physician, I would encourage them to consider the benefit of excellent pre-health advising at Duke. Medical school admission is competitive and help navigating the process is invaluable. I know many students who went to large state schools and needed an extra year or multiple attempts to get into medical school. The salary earned by starting work as a physician 1-2 years earlier essentially negates the cost difference in tuition. Also, the quality of my undergraduate education at Duke prepared me extremely well for medical school. My transition to the rigorous medical curriculum was much smoother than some of my classmates from other undergraduate schools.
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9h
Susana MacLean
I should add that I think your son should not apply ED anywhere, he should apply for Duke merit scholarships, and if he gets into UF but does not get a Duke scholarship, he should choose UF. He can apply to Duke or JHU and many other prestigious universities for med school. Going $200k into debt before facing another $300k in medical school debt is a really bad way to start a career in medicine.
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17h
Navia McCloud
Similar situation. We encouraged our daughter to apply regular everywhere. We thought that with her strong background, she deserved to see all of her options. She got into the ivies and MiT without early committing and it gave her the freedom to choose Duke with no regrets. She was able to attend admitted students weekends at the other schools and make truly informed decisions.
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17h
Radha K Kota
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Navia McCloud Wah!! That's great. I guess they will get through regular if they are worth it!
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17h
Reply to Navia McCloud…
Todd Wagner
Not for everyone but would he consider a military Health Profession scholarship program for med school. Full ride for a 4 year payback to any med school in America. I did it an have zero regrets.
My son also chose Duke over many options including U of F.
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9h
DrSheetal Desai
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My daughter was accepted John Hopkins and Duke... in 2016.. she is now a 3rd year medical student . We couldn't be more happier for the decision of Duke
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9h
Todd Knox
There are many different successful routes through undergrad and med school, and many different reasons for choosing a specific one. If finances are the biggest concern, sure, take the full ride and bet on his continued excellence to get him into med school. But Duke offers an experience that few other schools can match (I would venture that includes Johns Hopkins) and one needs to balance those lifelong benefits against the cost. It’s a fabulous problem to have! Best wishes!
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8h
Kjersten Klassen
If he is a National Merit Scholar as well, he could go for free to other places as well. Look at University of Alabama and Arizona. Great science opportunities at UAB.
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8h
Jen Bienstock Cohen
Our daughter went to Duke. Amazing school. BUT take the FULL RIDE! If he’s going to graduate school Ubdergrad does not matter.
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17h
Rashi Kambo Madhok
Going in-state or private is eventually up to you and what your students decide. Of course, visiting all schools you are considering is important. We are also from Florida and my oldest chose to stay in-state and attended UF in the honors program (which is v select and you have to apply after you get into UF) and thereafter went on to FSU medical school and UF residency. All very inexpensive and he still has money left in his education fund. Now doing a GI fellowship in Charlotte. The youngest chose to attend Duke and applied early decision and he really enjoyed his Duke experience. It was expensive, of course and he got zero scholarship monies and worked at an international company for three years thereafter doing extremely well and has now started his MBA at Booth school of business (Univ of Chicago - the best ranked), also very expensive.
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8h
Edited
Sudi Dannenberg Randoing
This is such a hard decision. Our older son had a full ride to SMU but attended Stanford where he didn’t. It worked out for him because he got a good job with Bain Consulting after college and is fine. Our younger son chose ED Duke and is now getting his Masters at Stanford where his research position is paying his way. Ultimately we let our sons choose as we didn’t want to be blamed for restricting their choices. We tried to spell out the consequences of each choice. I’m a firm believer that what you do there is more important than where you attend undergrad, but the child’s happiness is v important. As much as I love Duke, I think I’m in the avoid undergrad loans if you can camp. Good luck to your friend’s son.
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8h
Mridul Malayanil
How do high school students find research opportunities. Need guidance and any help for my kid
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15h
Susan Cummings
So many different and good comments. I think ultimately your family will need to decide this very personal decision. Hopefully these comments help sort that out.
I attended Duke as an undergrad and Johns Hopkins for medical school. I am grateful for both experiences and it was the people that made the difference. I have two daughters, who attended Duke and have both had tremendous experiences. It is a VERY special experience, virtually everyone they met, is talented, academically motivated and headed down a path where they will ?be using their gifts. I suspect your son will meet people like that WITHIN the honors program at these Florida schools. Because large state universities have a different mission (educating state residents), there will be many ?students at Florida who don’t have the same drive as his honors classmates. The Florida experience will be different because it’s mission is different. It is hard to put a dollar amount on that difference.
In your calculations, it does not look like you’ve considered scholarship money to a private undergrad school your son may in fact be awarded. Graduating with a lot of undergraduate debt can be a burden? but you may in fact have lower costs than you realize. I have a nephew, who went to Princeton and qualified for a tremendous amount of merit scholarship. I would really encourage you to look for those opportunities at whatever school your son is interested in.
Also, I would try to schedule a visit Johns Hopkins and Duke prior to applying ED if you go that route. The atmospheres are totally different both are GREAT academic schools. As a med student, I spent a fair amount of time studying on the undergraduate campus because I lived across the street. I think it’s fair to say that? Johns Hopkins has less overall school cohesiveness? and experiences outside of the academics. It is very intense and in my opinion those fewer outside activities with your classmates give less opportunities to generate that supportive culture. Hopkins is a great fit for some and that’s why I encourage you to visit. On ?another note one of my daughters who graduated from Duke and is headed to med school. Wishing your son all the best!
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9h
Emily Kaye
Susan Cummings I would also advise campus visits. I grew up in Baltimore and have several relatives and friends who attended Hopkins. My prom was in their campus, which is gorgeous. However, the surrounding area has really gone downhill since the Orioles moved downtown. Lots of crime, lots of urban misery and serious safety concerns. Both Duke & UF are in much safer areas. Hopkins spends a fortune on campus security, but once you step off, it’s another world. That’s not to say students won’t be perfectly fine, but it’s something to see for yourself.
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7h
Reply to Susan Cummings…
Stacey Moss Parks
Med school cares about grades. Get the 4.0 at UF, have no loans and get into a top med school. There are so many research opportunities at UF and he can go to Duke for med school
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13h
Turi Kozel
My son was able to apply ED to Duke and any state schools at the same time in California. I’m not sure about the rules in Florida?
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2h
Laurence Aquilina-Stott
Both my kids got full ride to UM but one went to JHU and the other just graduated from Duke last May. Both have loved their experiences and though these choices were expensive decisions, we are glad we made them. I know that the colleges they went to opened doors when applying for their jobs. Good luck
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8h
Nancy Cannon Crair
Top contributor
I’m not sure if UF offers it, but my friend’s daughter is doing the FSU Honors Medical Scholars. It’s a program that continues through medical school as long as the student continues to meet all requirements. Here’s the link to the info. https://www.google.com/search...
He also can use his Bright Futures money since it is in Florida which he will lose out of state.
fsu undergrad medical school program - Google Search
GOOGLE.COM
fsu undergrad medical school program - Google Search
fsu undergrad medical school program - Google Search
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7h
Lisa Stavola Ockerman
My son went to undergraduate at Duke. He loved it. He is currently in medical school (3rd year) at University of Florida. He is having a great experience. The cost is affordable. Message me if you are interested in speaking offline about it.
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