Stat2006-03-31 16:53:18回複悄悄話
YuQing, KaungYe and WeiFei,
Thank you for sharing your thoughts here. I find it helpful to listen to what others have to say. Personally I gain more from reading the free style poems on the net than from reading LvShi or Ci. Some people think it is easy to compose free style. It is right to a certain point. But to compose good free style poems, it is very hard, harder than LvShi and Ci (at least to me). I would consider the soul of a poem is its rhythm (the content is another important integral part – the body or the flesh). I prefer to listen to the author reciting his poem than to read it (since the punctuation can make a big difference). Because LvShi and Ci have certain format, to follow the format is to guarantee it sounds reasonable. But an author might find it hard to express himself freely when limited by the format. That is the reason why some Ci or LvShi seem to be work of children playing Leggo. To WeiFei’s point, I do appreciate those poets who take social responsibility. And the 101 of taking social responsibility is to be real. I remembered KuangYe’s poem about the little Chinese girl. It moved me by the powerful emotion it delivered. “Back to the Winter” also left me with some impact. According to our own mood, sometimes we like one and other times we may like others. It is reasonable to assume that authors are good at different styles at different times, too.
I will be on the road for a while. Good luck in composing better poems!
Stat2006-03-29 17:13:51回複悄悄話
I actually wanted to say "Why would I ever sigh?" but missed the "I". Because of this, FeiJun might have mistaken what I meant.
I tried to express that I would not sigh over a seed of perpetual life.
I agree that our styles are yet to be established. We all start with copying the great work we like. Occasionally we will be inspired and come up with some original thought -- that is the moment that we enjoy and celebrate. I prefer your free style to others. I have also seen different styles in your free style poems.
Thank you for sharing your thoughts here. I find it helpful to listen to what others have to say. Personally I gain more from reading the free style poems on the net than from reading LvShi or Ci. Some people think it is easy to compose free style. It is right to a certain point. But to compose good free style poems, it is very hard, harder than LvShi and Ci (at least to me). I would consider the soul of a poem is its rhythm (the content is another important integral part – the body or the flesh). I prefer to listen to the author reciting his poem than to read it (since the punctuation can make a big difference). Because LvShi and Ci have certain format, to follow the format is to guarantee it sounds reasonable. But an author might find it hard to express himself freely when limited by the format. That is the reason why some Ci or LvShi seem to be work of children playing Leggo. To WeiFei’s point, I do appreciate those poets who take social responsibility. And the 101 of taking social responsibility is to be real. I remembered KuangYe’s poem about the little Chinese girl. It moved me by the powerful emotion it delivered. “Back to the Winter” also left me with some impact. According to our own mood, sometimes we like one and other times we may like others. It is reasonable to assume that authors are good at different styles at different times, too.
I will be on the road for a while. Good luck in composing better poems!
Sean
小女子真是厲害呀！＜斷曲＞一貼立刻凸顯在下的輕率。致歉先！想當日譴責文學城論壇管理，草草了事，今日，不過是便宜行事之人。慚愧。
再致歉！＜斷曲＞印象太深刻，是雨清君悠悠作品中，較少呈現的風格。是誤用，請見諒。
可是您難道也被誤導？覺得這首作品有往下虛弱之感？這就是我一再想討論的。
一個詩人，對自己的創作，到底！
有幾分的了解？
所以我們是不是別在密碼上頭，猛解碼了。我想討論的是＜發想＞。密碼也許是趣味的一環，也許是創作的源頭。都不過包含在＜發想＞之中。
怎麽說呢！總觀你們的討論，隻讓我覺得，像是再討論一件物品的＜包裝＞！是應該用這方式？用那方式？用紅色玻璃紙？還是綠色蝴蝶結？
各位詩人！文字藝術的創作者！你們想討論的是這個麽？
當然！這種討論形式並沒有錯，也無任何不妥。我想問的是∶專業職則在哪裏？
詩人們對文字的責任在哪裏？
一個寫小說的，寫散文的，或是媒體工作者。我們會稱他為作家，為文字創作者。但是不會稱作詩人。熟高熟低其實無仿，我想問的是∶詩人，你對自己的期許在哪裏？你很清楚的問過自己麽？問過麽？
那種很清楚的，狠狠的問。
通常一般藝術創作者，在看到同好發表作品時。我要強調一下，是同好。不是人來人往的大眾。他們會這樣對話麽？［這裏綠色應該重些］［這刀刻的太淺］［把木頭擺在金屬上麵，重心會穩一點］芸芸等等。
這樣的對話，終將落入情緒的巢臼，停滯在空洞之中。然！安然！無所謂妥與不妥。
先到這哩，再敘。
ＰＳ∶直來直往的問一句，若有電燈泡之嫌，請告知。非常人，但知趣。
ＰＳ２∶＜詩道喜裸評＞是新ＩＤ，貼近些！可我還想著我那＜非非君子＞那悲慘的名呀！被先注冊走後，麻煩四起。懷念。
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雨清，你的詩歌也極具個性。關於“密碼”，我還在琢磨，唯兄(他好像改ID了)最
好再來展開一下。
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曠兄好:)
對於您說的詩"有流動性(隨意不確定), 又有潛在的定勢. 流動性往往來自詩人的瞬間情感噴發, 是種不可控的元素, 可能詩人自己都對其說不明道不白." 有相似的體會. 這種流動性也可視為爆發性,其實就是一種強烈的靈感/刺激. 在那種狀態下寫出的文字, 往往一氣嗬成,但:某些部分作者自己也可能不明所以.若需要作者具體解釋起來,也可能不大容易.
另一點, "而潛在定勢可能就是由君子說的"密碼"決定的. 既然是密碼, 當然詩人不想或不願讓其給人輕易破解". 覺得新詩裏常能看到這樣的用法,尤其是話題比較特別的. 我在讀您和舞曼M等詩友的新詩時,也遇上過很難解讀意思的情況.終究"隻能意會,不能言傳".
發覺你們某些詩中的凝重和濃烈,特別張揚個性,且極具震撼力.真的需要好好學習.
其實古詩詞中用"密碼"(借唯兄語)的也不少. 覺得"密碼"之用,與外在環境,內在私秘,中國人含蓄性格等等各種因素有關. 不過,個人認為,使用密碼,應掌握適當的度,因為若使用過多過濫的話, 就真的太委屈讀者的腦細胞了:))
很欣賞君子對詩的某些總體見解, 比如"對於詩的評論，不應該在於檢討是哪一句，
或是哪一個字。除非評者與作者有一定的熟息程度，知道作者的用詞原委，甚至於
是用字的密碼。" 就我個人很淺的自由體詩歌體驗, 我覺得詩如液晶, 有流動性(隨意不確定), 又有潛在的定勢. 流動性往往來自詩人的瞬間情感噴發, 是種不可控的元素, 可能詩人自己都對其說不明道不白. 而潛在定勢可能就是由君子說的"密碼"決定的(密碼這詞用得好有創意, 我得好好想想). 既然是密碼, 當然詩人不想或不願讓其給人輕易破解 . 所以, 自由詩(我對格律詩一竅不通)的這兩種特性都讓傳統意義上的評詩變得很難.
我可能也分享STAT的一些感受, 怎麽說呢, 就COPY他的一句話吧" I like the change since it is more upbeat (and more like me:) )", 希望STAT的評論給雨清的詩
帶來更多的upbeat.
關於斷曲, 前強後弱之勢,其實也不是刻意的風格. 而是順著情感而流淌的文字,甚至是血淚. 近乎一種"自刎":)所以到了最後部分,自是虛弱下去,但是,卻也是最後一聲最清晰最沉重的誓.
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斷 曲 BY 雨清
冷.
一字, 一句,
冷得如你的決斷,
紋絲不動.
我恨,
恨你的不懂.
我恨,
恨天的捉弄!
難道,
你還要,
再演一次,
來生的相逢?
狠心的人,
痛斷絲弦,
一聲絕望,
迸裂長空.
寒光,
蒙蔽前塵的愛寵;
無情的劍鋒,
落在你的手中.
原來,
見了血,
桃花,
才有隔世的紅.
What I meant was that I prefer your free style poems to other poems of yours. I was comparing among your poems.
I like the change since it is more upbeat (and more like me:) )
How do you like Chen2 Ai1?
BTW, the beginning of your post repeat after [七律]-詩書女兒. You should check it out.
不敢砸！聽說你好哭！嗬嗬！我怕聽到任何哭聲。我兒子小的時候一哭，我就逃家。還好賤內哭的次數不多，否則就得休去！怕的是台灣一些字詞的用法，與你們不太相近，常常會造成誤解。不過在點點兒姑娘指導之下，誠略有長進。
實在說，不太情願與Ｓ兄分享！！他敲的字，我看的痛苦的要死。不太公平。 ◑∧◐
這裏所討論的風格還是不夠具體，下回應該舉一列子才能有所依據。依稀記得您＜斷曲＞的風格，前段鏗鏘有力，越到後頭氣勢就弱了。隻是依稀記憶。因為今天事忙，沒空找去。下回再敘。
I tried to express that I would not sigh over a seed of perpetual life.
I agree that our styles are yet to be established. We all start with copying the great work we like. Occasionally we will be inspired and come up with some original thought -- that is the moment that we enjoy and celebrate. I prefer your free style to others. I have also seen different styles in your free style poems.
Thank you for your poem.
個人覺得對於詩的評論，不應該在於檢討是哪一句，或是哪一個字。除非評者與作者有一定的熟息程度，知道作者的用詞原委，甚至於是用字的密碼。否則都屬多餘。我比較想要了解的是∶作者對於自己作品得觀點，比方說是風格、架構、或是想脫離的巢臼。有一點像是說明，一路走來的心路曆程一般。
創作古風格的詩持，因為有框架在，檢討用字才有一定的意義存在。幾乎沒有風格的問題。而創作新詩詞則不然，風格的重要性似乎應該擺再第一位。但是當同一種模式反覆使用過後，就會像是招式用老一般。有突破自己、或是脫離巢臼的難處。
這是我想要討論的重點，若是雨清君願意闡述。我再挑出您的作品提問。
這貼！盼回覆。謝謝