我給名為“該不該回國”網友的帖子
（１）男人其實都不喜歡離婚。
如果可以，誰不想象皇帝那樣，搞個後宮三千，離什麽離？多累啊。喜歡誰就寵誰，多去她那小館，不喜歡就讓她在冷宮裏吃齋念佛，自生自滅。
“紅旗不倒，彩旗飄飄”是現代精英簡化版本的“帝王”理想。
（２）男人為什麽才會離婚？
情人逼婚，他玩兒火玩兒大了，被套牢了。國內的女孩子要是“上”，那就是有目的的。否則放著同齡帥哥兒不理，誰跟你個黃臉衰男羅嗦。
“該不該”的老公喜歡國內那一套，他在美國有很好的工作和新房子，他還真是放下了“高薪，洋房”哭著喊著回國的。而他在國內最喜歡的又是什麽呢？是“喝酒交朋友玩”，這就對了。這種年齡的男人一塊出去還能玩出什麽別的名堂？沒人捧著哪裏來人上人的感覺？
男人想離婚還有可能是老婆太厲害太沒趣兒，麵目可憎，讓他生不如死了。有些中年婦女特羅嗦平庸，除了孩子工作一點別的興趣都沒有，我跟她們在一起１０分鍾不到都煩得逃跑。
（３）離婚的壞處
那人要是沒良心躲在國內，下堂妻帶著孩子可是一分錢也收不到了。
鑒於這個前提，要是他很想離，“該不該”就得對他狠一點，能多爭取的利益都別鬆口。
（４）離婚的好處
舊的不去，新的不來。
總之，“該不該”要有破釜沉舟的決心，回去就趕快回，不要考慮那麽多瓶瓶罐罐，別耗著；要留就死心踏地地留下，那邊天塌下來，也別讓他壞了心情，以不變對萬變。
comments for my post:
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“該不該回國”網友的原帖:
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| | | | | 我在大概一年前發過帖子，請各位網絡朋友了解我們的現狀，幫幫我出出主義。他已經回國一年半了。現在又到了我們作決定的時候了。
我們在美十年，兒子一年級，女兒今年9月上kingdgarden.老公在我的堅決反對下還是回國。我在一個大學工作， 做著雞肋一樣的工作，收入一般。看樣子老公2-3年是不會回美國了。他現在每年可以回美國4次。兒女很喜歡美國。兒子現在鋼琴，遊泳，滑冰都挺好。每天可高興。我現在拿不定主義，今年年暑假後，全家都回中國，還是維持現狀?維持現狀的話，我很辛苦，心裏和身體都很疲憊，如果都回去的話，怕對小孩有影響。即使回去，我也計劃回去3-4年，等小孩小學畢業後，回美國上初中，畢竟他們要在美國讀大學。就擔心這樣換環境，對小孩有影響。請朋友們給我建議!!!!!多謝!
我家情況是我先生極力回國，在我的再三阻攔下仍然回去了，扔下我們母女三人在美國。小的5歲，大的7歲。我全職工作10years，種種原因，現在搞的我焦頭爛額，非常影響我們的感情。我現在都非常恨他。恨他的不負責任。我在美國申請公民，公民馬上就下來。問題是現在我是身心疲憊，我害怕耽誤兩個小孩的前途。是跟他離婚還能怎麽辦? 我都不知道怎麽辦好。請各位兄弟姐妹幫我出出主意。
我們前幾天通話時他透露出孩子還是在美國好，他2-3個月回來一次。暑假我和孩子回國，這樣我們全年在一起的時間也有5個月。還說我們回去的話，他要分心，不能更全心投入到他的事業中。但我不同意。他說你不同意就算了。其實他回去半年了，在這半年前，他都買好機票要回去看看，在機票前一天晚上我對他說，如果你回去，丟掉現在這麽好的工作，我沒法和你過了。他就沒回去，機票作廢。第二天，自己一人在家痛哭，覺得自己的事業，前程被我和孩子困住，心裏很不甘心，想回國創一番大事的野心成了泡影。後來在朋友的勸說下（我們所有的朋友都說他不應該回），他也想開了。但國內的人又和他聯係上，說讓他回去看看，如果不喜歡就回來，這樣我暑假前腳回國，他後腳也回去了，回去之後他就不想回來了，在國內又和我商量，我還是堅決反對， 包括我的家人。但他家人整天想他回去，都想粘他的光。但他主意已定，自己說，舍不得孩子套不住狼，這樣他就把我們舍掉，回去自己創去了。我們結婚整十一年，頭5年他讀書，我工作（我是國內的博士，來美國就工作），我辦綠卡等，他一切事情都聽我的，但最近3，4年，他工作後，和我的意見分歧的比較多，我們兩地分居，周末我帶孩子到他那裏（我們在他工作地買了房子，想我以後要到他那裏的）。對他回國這件事，我心裏始終不同意，其實已經嚴重影響了我對他的感情。我想即使我們全家都回去後，遇到不開心的事情，我都要怪到他的頭上。其實我心裏最擔心的是3-4年後，他還是不想回美國的話，我拿他是一點辦法都沒有的。那時我年紀也大了，回美也不好找工作，我實在是怕耽誤孩子的身心和前程。我真是很矛盾。唉！遇到這樣的老公。。。
very appreciate for XDJM's idea. Right now my husband think at his age (39 year), it is the only chance that he can get to develep his career. He has a decent job in America, but he doesn't like. He likes social, drink alcohol, make more friends, don't like america's boring life, and just as a senior engineer. So he decided to "xi sheng" short family's life to gain his longer happy life. And ask me to stay in america for one year to get citizen for after 5 years, we will back to america, let my kids go to middle school. You know it is hard for me to take care of 2 kids with full time job. I didn't expect it is so difficult. In america, we live apart around 70 miles, and I take care of 2 kids, and we bought a house nearby his job because I think I will move within one year, and every weekend I will take my 2 kids driving to our house. He doesn't like and always angry to me that I don't move. right now, he went away. I always ask him what is your happy life? kids without father? wife without husband? and recently I met a lot of trouble: car, personl, job, kids's day care... all these trouble made me crazy!!!!!!!!!!!!
I like live america and my kids like too. He doesn't like USA when he come. He came to usa for his phD, just earn money in recent 4 years, and I work here since I came, and easily and quickly to get GC.We also have a new big house. if we moved back to china, we will sell our new furnitures and whole staff in house which is just 2 years old. will lose a lot of money. That is what I don't like.and feeling is not good, but if don't move, it is hard for me...............that's why I I need your suggestion. Thank you guys again!!!!! |
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中國人該不該把駱家輝當成自家人 文章來源: 歐聯時報 於 2009-03-28
這個標題對駱家輝是不公平的!
"中國人該不該把駱家輝當成自家人？"的措詞有大問題!
1) 駱是現任美國的一個部長,當然要盡忠職守.
2) 因為奧巴馬是黑人,駱家輝才有機會上去,他的心中可能想到"我們做的會比你們老白好!"
3) 駱家輝在成長的過程中,受了不少歧視,現在算爭了口氣.即使幾年前還有人給他恐嚇信...
4) 駱家輝部長是為很有中華民族感的人,他在競選州長時就大聲地說"有華人血統的驕傲!"
這與其他的華裔政客們都畏畏縮縮的盡量與"華"分開,是大不相同地!
5) 駱家輝是自家人? 當然是! 他像是中國嫁出去的閨女,希望中國人不要幻想"她"是專門
拿東西回娘家的"內賊".
6) 通過駱家輝或許可以使美國改善對中國的關係和印象,美國國內有這麽多反中的昏人,
絕非奧巴馬和駱家輝所能完全左右的!
7) 看看這些英國種的,猶太種的美國有權有勢有財人物,他們對英國,對以色列太多方便了!
8) 希望中國人不要幻想!不著實際地幻想是危險的!
9) 駱家輝的路途是艱巨的,壓力各方來,但他是明事理的,我們必須支持他!!!
也許，是我心態不對？還是這裏一些人心態有問題？"(來源: CCC512 )
男人這樣解釋：“all men do it including your husband . u just do know abt it :- )cats all eat fish. if one of them does not, then it is not a cat any more . period ! :-) "(by cp3)
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多謝！ 你說的很對。我自己也是這麽安慰自己的。我灌了那麽多水，是希望“該不該”小妹及其她JM們能有一個較滿意的結局。
Really can feel your pain and your despair.
To be confess, I used to a lost soul like your husband!
As you can see, my husband is a very responsible man who love me more than himself. He take all house-keeping, cooking, and driving me to school, that I am still a big child without responsibility.
But God is fair, when he give you something precious, he will also bring away something equally previous!
I always want a child, but my husband do not want. Do you know why, because he said taking care of you is already too much, if we have a child, I know it is also me will take care of child, that is too much! Then I ask when we can have a child, he said untill you grow up and become share house-work with me and let me feel relax.
That I know it is true and God let me to grow up and being a responsible mom then we will have a child.
My dear 雪花漂飄,
Don't lost your faith! Your husband is just like a child who need to grow up and learn to be responsible! He is a lost soul who also suffers!
He is suffering from let his family pain; he is suffering when he see other man surrounded by his family; he is suffering when his secret lover asked for marriage but he can not give. He is suffering when he realized maybe both his career and his family will both leave him away in the future...
Everyone know what is right in her/his deep heart! That is why he do not want to divorce, because he know in this world only you and your kids are his family and will be waiting for his return.
He know he is a sinner and a lost soul, but right now he is driven by his desire, which he can not overcome by disciple and sacrifice!
Damage already made for you and your kids! And I understand you have a gentle sweet heart both for your kids and your husband. In this way, I really hope God can give your faith and strength to hold on until your husband grow up and take his responsibility or untill you find your new sweet love!
"不是我瞎編的, Scientific 雜誌上看到, 男人表達喜怒哀樂的能力普遍比女人差. 因為他們腦後的一部分大腦細胞不如女人發達. 當然什麽事都有例外! 也就是說, 男人在很多感情表達的情形下詞不達意! 女人不是多變, 是女人更能夠表達感情. 男人不大能表達清楚他們想說出來的東西, in terms of their emotions! It does take more patience to communicate with men for us as smart women!"
Sorry, I do not understand this so well. And I even patintly communicated with Wiserman. Of course, Isaid something rude. But finally he understood what I said.
From all my friends and relatives around, they think I am the person who are very patient. Maybe the problem it is too patient, my husband does not care me.
Any way, your husband is looking for the school for your kids. I think the relatively good (not the worst ones, some schools even in USA are really too bad, kids are easily affected by other people), not the best (too hard to get it in) is ok for the kids
Thank you. And I think your husband is quite resposible man. I agree with his suggestions. You are lucky wife.
1. Stick together: my husband is not willing as he thinks he will need spend some times on us(me and children) liking finding a school for children at least at the begining.
2. Divorce: he also is not willing as he thinks he can back at any time while he gets problems in China, we are his backup, and of course, better social system in this country.
So that is why I am so angry while I saw this in the original article"我們前幾天通話時他透露出孩子還是在美國好，他2-3個月回來一次。暑假我和孩子回國，這樣我們全年在一起的時間也有5個月。還說我們回去的話，他要分心，不能更全心投入到他的事業中。". This is just exact the same like our husbands said. And I am afraid that "該不該回國" will be end up the same situation like us: separate many years (>25 years) until retired.
Still I would say again life is still going on. However, it is really too suffering to wives, husbands are too selfish, wives like us are just very unlucky.Nothing else.
"雪花, 你應該盡快回去守住你的他的!". Thanks. And to myslef. Of course it is possible always to back to China if I want. However, I feel so meaningless to back to China if my huaband thinks it is not necessary to get the family united.
And from his altitude of dealing family issue, he is not so resposible to me. I will be in quite embrassed situation if I had some difficulty like huge sickness etc. Therefore, you know USA and European contries have quite better social system, the system will take care of me if some problem happens.
I said above that does not mean i only think myslef security. First, what do you feel? If you husband say to you that he does not want take more trouble while you back to China. You feel that you are the extra trouble to him. Of course, it is not so necessary to back to China. No matter how hard the life is, if husband says he needs you, let's us together, and face the hard life, no problem, just back.
Of course, like "windcat" said, just divorce, I suggested divorcing,but denied by my husband, and of course, my children still feel a whole family even sometime father goes away. From children's point, it is better to keep marriage.So the final result is that mother suffering, of course, children also suffering somehow while father is not together. Only husband gets the all benefits as he wishes.
請妳出專集,登到國內的報紙上,叫更多的人看到更廣闊的視野.
妳就功德無量啦!
我看了一下，我們這個帖子的跟貼有“196”！！這麽高的樓！大家都是hao樣的，我們在討論中共同成長了。感激大家。
有話的同學請繼續，我還在班上很忙，但我對大家的發言都仔細讀了，佩服！！！
我有一位主任,女性/DIRECTOR,洋人/,離婚後,就到非洲去服務了三年,會美後再見麵是,她說"This is my most rewarding work in my life."
很多洋人的心胸是寬廣的.他們比較不會像很多中國人一樣去鑽牛角尖.
Someone may see you have problem in your brain.
我們老中有個壞毛病,對真實的好話,聽不進去!
我的話,不是為你說的;能聽進去的,必然獲益!
...學甲古文...
既然世上幾乎沒有100%完美的婚姻,那麽雙方就必須努力學習如何適應(從本身做起,互相尊重對方,互相容忍,互相體貼,給予對方空間...),一般情況都會有好結果;若還是不行,你們就得做決定了!人生就是如此,不要"人比人"!該認的就認了!...世界到處都有有趣的事情做,到非洲去慈善服務,去爬山,學新東西...世界是我們的,尤其是現代的中國人,要準備做世界級的公民!
啊彌托佛!啊們!老天爺保佑!
引:"這種討論不會有結果的.因為生活本來就沒有標準答案,即使是大多數人走的路,也不一定就是合適你的."
===
全同意.
I usually advice the troubled spouses to stay together, but later I have found they might not be the real soul mates.... And 90+% of the spouses in the world are not perfect match.
Is that simple!
這種討論不會有結果的.因為生活本來就沒有標準答案,即使是大多數人走的路,也不一定就是合適你的.
1) both have good point: "Sitck together forever, otherwise break it and find new love!!! " & "你如果一個勁的和老公分析這分析那...盡力不要幫你自己的倒忙! "
2) There are many qualified women in China are "waiting" for your Husbands...
3) I also see some cases the other way around. The husbands want to stay in US and the wivies want to go back to China. Well, that's life!
There is no such rule to force people to live a certain spot, also no such rule to say that you have to stay with this person for life. People come together become they have common ground. Now, the ground is not common any more, just go ti find a greener pasture!
住在那裏這麽重要嗎?
夫妻是誰規定的不能"退休"?
每一個人的情況,需要都不同,為何不能自創一格? BE YOURSELF!
4) 討論了這麽久,還在原地踏步踏?!
I asked my husband about how to deal with long-term seperation, answer is simple with power: stick together no matter how hard. Other wise, divorce, then you go to china!
This I believe is the best solution for whole family!
I remember when my mom strongly against our marriage, we stick together and life well until my mom admit my husband and love him years later;
We stick together when I am a student and my husband took all kinds of under-table labor jobs (he can find high-pay in other city);
We stick together when my husband pursure his study and I quit my degree in order to company him;
We still stick together when both of us have high pay and lived in one of most beautiful city in North American.
But if I decied to move on for my carreer to another city, my husband will quit and move together.
Stick together is the most beautiful things with power and love and both learn to sacrifice. The results are always warm your heart!!!
Don't find various excuse, I saw many of my good girl-friends suffer huge for seperation. It is very against human-nature, and it broken your faith and your heart!
Sitck together forever, otherwise break it and find new love!!!
Your ths advice is correct, most of us thought this way while husband left for China.
However as I said, some husbands just want themself easilier.They may arrange the family united in China, but they just do not want to do it as more work needed, for instance, arrange the school for children, and family house, wife's control some how.
On the other hand, they do not want divorce, just let wife alnoe in USA for many years, until retired. They enjoy the life in China as long as China is going well, and coming back to USA someday if any problem. And They may find some girlfriend to solve sex problem in China if they want, but how can a mother do that in USA with the children? I do not mean short period, I mean over 25 years in separation state.
This is why many of us are so upset. I guess that your husband is not that kind of man, he will find a way of arrange the unification. So you do not worry it.
人說海歸有5關: 資金關,家庭關,文化關, 市場關, 管理關.
你如果一個勁的和老公分析這分析那, 你是間接的幫他度過這些關卡. 幫他在中國站穩. 這其實也是你不想得到的結果! 所以盡力不要幫你自己的倒忙! 給你和他一點時間!
我覺得你其實很不想放棄他. 也沒有到放棄他的時候.
不要逼他. 等你把兒子養大, 會懂得男人多一些.
至於怎樣解決聚少離多的狀況, 你得再看看.
保持你自己的獨立, 錢和人格. 過你的日子.
他如果做成了,呆下去了, 你再打算也不晚.
"你不會一年一年等下去。", This is really good wish for the wives.
However, like I said, we (I and 4 friends) have waited for 7 yeasrs, husbands still insist separation, no promise, no plan to arrange the united.
Anybody starts commenting me, please answer my this question?
"他若是那種想拋棄你的人，你就是硬把他留下來，他也不會盡責任與你同甘共苦。你也不要逼著他回來，他若不是笨蛋，會盡量證明自己是對的想辦法在中國留下來。男人都這德性。所以你要等還要忍！
"
If we can 等 husband in 27 years in the separation state, of course, there is no need of discussing here.
Like I said, many wives still tolerate the separation caused by husbands in order to keep the whole family for children even no hope of united before retired.
Children grow bigger, usually after 10 years old, it is quite hard to back to China if not attend the International schools, but it is not easy for many family to pay IS as it is quite expensive.
And considering of fee and many problems from moving, husband choose easier way to let wives to saty in USA or European countries. Then at least no united before children start university. Even after chindren starting univeristy, then for amny wives, it is not easy to get a job in China, and considering the pension etc., then still separation.
If the marrage still is kept, it is already some how happy end. But many of husband may find a new wife in China in this long term separation. And wives are having high pressure in whole life, and isn't it too rucial for wives?
"你不像是個為性結婚的人，也決不會為性離婚。一輩子的緣分和性趣，不差這幾年！到是要好好待你自己，想辦法找人幫幫你。孩子畢竟要精心照看的。"
I think the wife usually think the same as you do. However, there are several husbands in my place just declared that they are very happy in China, no plan to return to this country, and wife just stay in this country permantly with the children, and they can back to this country if something bad in china happens, or he got the big trouble, no plan to arrnage the children and wives to back to China.This mean separation will last until the retirement, family may unite after 20 years + 7 years passed, 27 years separation in whole life. How many years we can live?
If husband tell wife, hi,Lao Po, just wait me for several years, either I will return to USA, either I will arrange you back to China to get family unitfication. Few wives will not be angry.
The real problem is: husband just stays in China with their happy life, no plan to arrange the family unitification.
My statement about sex life is all based on the long-term separation, like 27 years. Do you still think it is not important?
And I know many wives still tolerate even no hope to get the family united in order to give children a whole family.
We are not enough good?
你不像是個為性結婚的人，也決不會為性離婚。一輩子的緣分和性趣，不差這幾年！到是要好好待你自己，想辦法找人幫幫你。孩子畢竟要精心照看的。
Do nothing and stay where you are for at least one more year!
You can go visit school while you are in China but try not to take your kids and don't let him know you are considering going back to China IF you still want him to be back to the US!
我其實很理解你今天的處境。我是折騰過了，有一點心得也希望給你一點啟發。你因該是個能幹的人。有事情總是想辦法一個人解決。其實你這一次要聽聽他的！他讓你先不要回去，其實是想告訴你他還很想回來。起碼他沒有下決心在那裏呆下去或不知道能不能呆下去。回去的前3年，很多不定因素，他隨時有在是不夠。可能堅持不下去。所以你要等，要忍！你今年至少不要搬回去！一年實在是不夠。
不打不相識!
好也!
因為妳不是版主,我就沒把妳的話拿出來一條條糾正,今天來算一下賬,哈哈!
如:A.妳還沒看請我的話,就武斷地說我把錯推倒一方.
B. 我說"清官難斷家務事”===是說出我們都是局外人,決不是為我自己辯護
C. "...去適應的!＂與"豈不是一勞永逸地解決世界上的所有的問題！"===是不同的事情,妳怎麽把它們混在一起?
D. "他給的建議多大而化之很籠統， 讓你看完了也很糊塗"===是因為妳的邏輯觀程度不夠.
E. "理想和情操是怎麽定義"===妳能定義嗎? 告訴妳,我有.
F. “理想和情操”跟“留在美國”對立起來的。" ===這是妳自己編的!妳沒看請我的話!
G. "他也覺得“培養內在品質”是跟“想性的問題”對立的， 鼓勵人家向尼姑和尚看齊，"=== 真不知道妳在亂說什麽,斷章取義,篡改原意.
H. "...中國女性與洋妞也不同...顯得他在這方麵很有鑽研和心得， 這就有點讓人搞不清楚他的“內在品質”是怎麽回事了。===有這方麵的認識是件好事,我當時就被當地白人女同學稱為"All American Guy!的"
I. "他潛意識裏還是在搞男尊女卑那一套， 女性要處處寬容忍讓..."=== 胡言亂語了!和我的人生觀都不同!
J. "...雖然他隻談了自己的數量能力還沒談到質量能力..."=== 這不是對自己的描述!妳為何如此敏感???
K. "他的typo...(簡單英文)都不知道...quite a unique person”，提問是用 Is 打頭還是 Does 打頭都搞不清楚I"=== 這寫東西我們初中都學過了,一下子用個"AN",又如何? 妳能懂就好,
我還寫了不少,其他的還有錯嗎?現在我們比一下英文如何?擔保把妳殺的片甲不留.
L. "以後拿道德經壓人"=== 我本身是很講道德的人.
M. "就撒嬌耍賴"=== 這是不跟女生鬥爭用的.
N. "不客氣， 為避免你連馬經都抬出來， 我本來是不打算說了。既然你要問， 我就說說我的看法"=== 我本來是問版主的,妳搶著回答是不對的.
O. 對妳的評論:喜歡故作姿態,會一點英文,腦筋邏輯ALL ＭＥＳＳＥＤ ＵＰ！，又會冤枉別人，過分自負．．．
Thank you, Wiserman for being a good sport, too!
沒空跟你說了。 你要記得不要對人對己雙重標準。對弱勢凶狠得很， 被人家抓住就撒嬌耍賴是不成的。 另外以後拿道德經壓人時， 避免造這種句子：“你如何如何......, 就必然如何如何......"。 人家會以為你連第一章都沒讀過。吹牛的時候， 要吹得象真的， 經曆不要編得讓人疑心...（好了， 禮物送太多了）
最後， 雪花是個好樣兒的！祝願你最後家庭幸福，人生圓滿。 所有經曆就當是人生財富一筆吧。 Take care. 再次謝謝小葉。
引:"我們正常的夫妻要求總麽和尼克鬆，克林頓有什麽關係？"
===
因為一般大眾把總統當成"role model(模範)",總統言行能影響社會風氣,社會風氣關係到婚姻觀念.
就是這個關係.
1. 引simply_leaf:"...評你也接觸接觸他們的思維方式嘛"
===
我是特意開導不同的想法和觀點,高興妳提到這個.很想聽聽妳的意見.
2. 引緋:"一個糊塗可笑， 自以為是， 強勢恐怖且不尊重女性的中國老式男性代表。再加一點， 一知半解， 好為人師"
===
妳又在欺負人了...妳說的不見得準(都對!),還是要多謝了.
我的思想非常先進,我是主張男女平等的人...很多人聽我的話都受益不少,包括:衝突解決,家庭糾紛,子女教育,公司事務,男女戀愛,社區服務...成功的實例很多.所以妳的話我不能信.請不要迷惑我.哈哈哈...
你現在做得很好， 我支持你。
什麽典型？ 就是一個糊塗可笑， 自以為是， 強勢恐怖且不尊重女性的中國老式男性代表。再加一點， 一知半解， 好為人師。
隻有一點我同意你， 那就是謝謝小葉子啦！
引:"...很有典型性..."
===
請解釋一下好嗎? 什麽樣的典型? 先謝謝啦.
雪兒妹妹一定年輕，其實老聰很有典型性，他人也直，又愛說，你也接觸接觸他們的思維方式嘛。
引:"...謝謝我的指正嗎， 怎麽就變成欺負..."
===
對!妳(們)講的都對!
我這個謝謝是包括"謝謝妳的欺負"的.
又,買花旗(C)的股票會賺的!現在大概是$2.90左右++++++++++++
咦， 你不是剛剛謝謝我的指正嗎， 怎麽就變成欺負你了？：）
引:"...丈夫強迫要求妻子分居留在美國是對妻子的不人道..."
===
對!
不多談,謝謝各位;趕快買股票吧,銀行股還會漲...還有專門欺負我的紅人"緋".都很好,大家熱鬧一番,宴席講散,人去樓空.趕場嗷!
歡迎寫信到我文學城會員通訊來,好像有什麽俏俏話之類的溝通管道.
我們正常的夫妻要求總麽和尼克鬆，克林頓有什麽關係？
引,"...丈夫要求妻子犧牲自己的性權利（3個月才見一麵）是不人道的。 這才是長期分居的最大的犧牲。既然小孩在那生長對不錯，丈夫不應該要求妻子留在美國給他做保障。太自私， 不人道。"
===
1) 197X幾年,我在美國中部,和老鄰居談家常,那時的美國人,絕大部分都是誠實,善良,誠信的;他們憶及往事,是有一些人不願離開自己的家鄉,到遠處工作,幾個月回家一次,而那寫老太太們,沒有一個抱怨的!那時他們都實行體罰教育,處罰小孩也是很嚴的...那是美國的黃金時代,可惜你們大多數沒看到,自從尼克森的水門事件後就糟糕了,又來了個強生越戰,克靈頓的鹿紋四季事件...
2) 每人機遇不同,性格有異,Simply_leaf 已經得到足夠的知識了.
3) 再說三遍: 清官難斷家務事!
清官難斷家務事!
清官難斷家務事!
4) 希望各位在對話中,學到些東西.人一定要不停的學習,提高自己的素質.我是得到了更多的見聞.謝謝嘍,
Old dog learn new tricks.
你不是說夫妻分居不重要嗎？還有別的意思嗎？
再讀一遍：
我也說過，老公回國是可以理解的。“該不該回國”不要強迫她老公回美國，那樣老公也是不幸福的。
但“該不該回國”的彷徨是正常的。我們首先要理解她，讓她心裏好受點。
我的主要觀點是：她老公不應該要求她留在美國。丈夫們最差也應該說：妻子願意在美國堅持，自己想法多來美國團聚。妻子如不願意在美國堅持，想法安排孩子會中國上學，老婆工作。真不應該要求妻子呆在國外給他做保障。太自私， 不人道。
正如偶然路過的人說的：
保重好身體, 照顧好孩子, 發展好事業, 真的想回國就回, 不想回呢, 就在美國過. 少爭吵, 兩個人在一起一天, 就盡量善待對方, 也減少對孩子的影響. 當然如果碰到更合適的人, 就重新選擇, 沒有必要為了這樣的老公耽誤自己的幸福.
我還加一條：讓老公自己決定留在中國或回美國。不要強迫他。如同我們不想別人強迫你一樣。
引"Simply_leaf： 能否請你封掉Wiserman的發言？我覺得他像一條瘋狗一樣亂咬。"
===
太過分了!
我們來回寫了這麽多,我是出自好意,有知識的直言,妳不識好壞,還在罵人,天良何在? 像一條B瘋I狗T C H.
你去看看我寫的， 我一直是說丈夫強迫要求妻子分居留在美國是對妻子的不人道。我沒有批評丈夫不能回國，也沒有說必須回國。
引"...是你說的，丈夫不再時，妻子要的獨自一人做愛..."
===
不要冤枉好人!我不是這樣說的.請再回去看請我的用字,是嚴密的.
我說的獨立是指獨立生活的能力.
"獨立生活的能力"不是鼓勵人去獨立生活,
"獨立生活的能力"是說要具有這種能力,需要是可以用!兩者大不相同!
引:"How I say you, I don't want to speak with you anymore."
===
I feel the same. Thanks.
你說：“女人一定要有獨立的能力!(不是雪花說的獨自一人做愛什麽的!)”
你搞清楚的。
我的前提是丈夫要求回國，而妻子留在美國，分居3個月才見麵， 正常的性愛無法滿足。而且很多年，是不人道的。
是你說的，丈夫不再時，妻子要獨立的獨自一人做愛。
per:"...(visiting schools at the new location) my son and daughter don't like. So we went back to...
===
小孩子都喜歡與"老"朋友在一起的.
我朋友的孩子們就是不要從風城支加哥搬到南加州.短短的幾天看學校,沒有實質的意義!
也許,從國內到美國對一些人(大人,小孩)有點吸引力,那是受到"到美國的幻覺"誤導的影響.
per:"...(visiting schools at the new location) my son and daughter don't like. So we went back to...
===
It is not ONLY happens in China-US relocation. It is true in every place. My friend relocated from Chicago to Irvine, CA years ago. Thier high school children just wanted to stay in Chicago. They don't care about the sunny S. California, they just wanted to stay with their old friends. .... A quick school visit will not do much to the children's mind.
引:"...I am over independent...not danosour either. Have good enough EQ. ...such a kind of husband..."
===
Don't get me wrong!
My "independability" focuses on the ability to make a living. It is nothing to do with the sex activities.
引:"...邏輯思辯能力有問題。 他說的話前後矛盾..."
===
妳的這些批評很有意思,我常常寫錯字是真的(我有點受康德,KANT,的影響,他的文筆文法是錯誤百出,近代的馬似鹿MASLOW,文句也很差,但是,他們的思想是超一流),謝謝指正!
但是,我整個的話是絕對有一直性的!邏輯上沒有問題!
妳提出的,隻要妳能從大處著眼,就知道我的話是連貫性.
妳滿滿想想九領會到了.
you should go visit all types of schools in China if you have some plans to go back.
I have met kids go to international, local and local school international devision. Don't worry about how much of the costs yet, find out about all your options.
首先妳和我應該感謝版主Simply_leaf,允許我們如此多的對話.
我能建議的是:妳可以從不同的角度看事情,也不能把妳的習慣傳統觀念當成永遠不變的真理(讀一下老子的道德經:...非常道...),學習充實自己,...增加妳的靈活性和深度感,妳必然能夠成為一位品質高貴的中國(女)人.
不可以改別人的話!
這是基本人格!
你在胡言亂語,改我的話!不可以!罪大惡極!
你的話是:"...就說老婆要支持. 當老婆要實現夢想的時候, 就說你的夢想不是夢想, 而是禍國殃民的根源."
而我的原文是:"...當然,若是丈夫沒有夢想,而妻子有,那麽丈夫就應該幫助妻子去實現她的夢想."
一字不差!
2) 我是極力維護女權的人;
首先:女人一定要有獨立的能力!(不是雪花說的獨自一人做愛什麽的!)是指性格的自立性和謀生的能力而言!
我兒子數學應該是比較advance. English is so so. Science is behind. He came back to take all honored and AP classes and did fine. He is getting good SAT but not perfect so I thinks it did affect him! Personality-wise, He is doing great! No more nerd. He is going to be captain for his high school debate team at senior year. Forget to mention, I have a daughter who is 5 years younger. Did not affect her too much academically. But she learned to buy name brand stuff from staying Shanghai for 3 years. Good and bad.
I found the hardest is finding English books to read for them. We used to bring lots of books to China every summer when we came to the US! No 我老公還在中國 most of the time for the year. He wants to come back but not easy. After all man (and woman) has to take his responsibility seriously.
小孩從國內回來英文沒什麽問題。國內英文教育抓得很緊。 但是小孩從美國回國中文才是大問題。如果要回去就盡快回去， 對小孩好些。
如果做得到成龍那樣也算最終能修成正果了， 就怕很多自以為是的男性們是“小姐的心， 丫頭的命”。 那就苦了家人了。
似乎這種愛折騰的男性大多是苦出身的鳳凰男， 對出人頭地有強烈的渴望，達不到目的的話他們會一直折騰下去直至絕望為止，：）， 不給折騰的話， 會過得很黯淡沮喪， 怨恨老婆的程度絕對不會低。：）
我覺得那些“心胸寬廣”啊“別堅持一個觀點”啊之類的話， 也可以說給這類男性聽聽。：）
兒子上高中前回到美國. 幸好找到和走前類似的工作, 否則不知道日子該怎麽過. 人人都知道夫妻分別久了,家庭中各種問題都會很難解決.這中間包括你和他的無法分享的困惑和壓力. 我現在的想法是一切隨緣! 我會經常在電話裏complain (羅嗦平庸!). 想法說出來了感覺好些. Give it some time and give it some patience, enjoy your life as much as you can! Good luck.
Why do you guess so? “interesting reading, difference between man and woman are so obvious here. I am guessing 雪花漂飄 must be young and beautiful, not much hardship in life, and is enjoying the best of life now. ”
Removing the surface appearance, the deep reason here is the big conflict between culture hungry and financial stability.
Developing country like China provide huge culture rewards for man with decent education and rich opportunities. Amazing food, fresh young girls, tons of friends, flexible rules to play, and close to parents.
Can wives provide similar adventures and exciting in US- a well known culture desert?
Those husbands who have courage to leave their wives and kids for China is the man who love Chinese culture, love chaotic, love exciting, and love adventure. Typically they are not family-oriented man, and an ordinary family life can never satisfy their heart.
These husbands are not searching for results, not matter so much for successful or not, but they are eager for experience! A rich experience!
Can you really win their heart back? Very likely not!!!
Maybe you should learn to be like a wive of "Chen Long"-famous movie star. Let him enjoy the colorful cherish world, let him taste all kinds of women, and you still be an angle for your kids and for this big child. Then sometime at his 50s, he will appreciate your patient and love, and bring all money and respect to you as a old old man...
看來我是被題目'該不該離婚'誤導了.
為我之前的不慎向當事人道歉.
對， 我也是覺得wiserman的邏輯思辯能力有問題。 他說的話前後矛盾， 往往把自己給繞進去了。比如他高調批判追求安逸， 但是力主回國是因為在美國更辛苦 ：）。結果不得不逃避問題不回答。 回答的問題又有驢唇不對馬嘴的情況， 顯得他的閱讀理解能力也很成問題。
他一開始就在事情還沒有完全弄清楚前就急躁冒進地對一方大打板子， 大力把責任放到一方頭上， 後麵卻不得不對自己連說三遍“清官難斷家務事”！ ：）
他的一個經典論點是：＂人的適應性很強,很強,很強...若是不能適應,那是妳自己告訴自己不去適應的!＂， 嗬嗬， 豈不是一勞永逸地解決世界上的所有的問題！：）
他給的建議多大而化之很籠統， 讓你看完了也很糊塗。 比如他說“人生要有比較高的理想和情操”, 你不知道他這高理想和情操是怎麽定義的， 又是如何放在家庭生活環境裏來樹立和協調的， 但你知道他是把“理想和情操”跟“留在美國”對立起來的。：）
他也覺得“培養內在品質”是跟“想性的問題”對立的， 鼓勵人家向尼姑和尚看齊，清心寡欲來獲得敬重。但突然他冒出來一句“女人最好能知道一些吸引男人的訣竅....啊,這是一門大學問...中國女性與洋妞也不同,所以洋人的著作,需要適當的修正才好用...”， 顯得他在這方麵很有鑽研和心得， 這就有點讓人搞不清楚他的“內在品質”是怎麽回事了。 ：）
他潛意識裏還是在搞男尊女卑那一套， 女性要處處寬容忍讓， 不考慮她們的實際情況。對自己，則很想樹立個高大全的雄性形象， 性事是三個月一次可， 一天三次也可，“不強求別人的愛好,順性而為,相配而合”。 雖然他隻談了自己的數量能力還沒談到質量能力， 但因為談了這麽一點性，就覺得自己是什麽都敢說了。連英語也都敢說了。 你可以原諒他的typo，比如打出個 “youer”來， 但你發現他連自己是“quite an unique person”還是 “quite a unique person”都不知道， 提問是用 Is 打頭還是 Does 打頭都搞不清楚， 你就很懷疑他這進過八間大學， 修過不同科係的經曆是怎麽回事兒......他還暗指自己是當老師的，你這就很替那些個學生擔心了……
你仔細讀一下Wiserman的回貼和跟貼, 你就比較容易理解一些中國男人的思維方式.
當需要妻兒為老公犧牲的時候呢, 就和你說一家人不要計較付出. 當需要老公為妻兒犧牲的時候呢,就不和你說一家人不要計較付出了, 改成老婆要獨立, 孩子要適應.
當老公要實現夢想的時候, 就說老婆要支持. 當老婆要實現夢想的時候, 就說你的夢想不是夢想, 而是禍國殃民的根源.
看見訣竅沒有? 根本不是觀點不同的問題, 而是怎樣對自己有利就怎樣說. 所以我勸你不用爭吵, 他們是揣著明白裝糊塗. 你能做的隻是想辦法盡量保護自己和孩子的利益.
回複雪花漂飄的評論:
引"...without any body at present? Funny? "
===
這表示還有其他問題存在.
抱歉,我要戰時休兵.十個小時後再談.
Becaue husband is in China, wife in USA. How can they make love? I mean this. Any 問題?
男女有共同性, 男人之間也有共同性,女人也有共同性;但是每人有每人的個性!
你與他/她相處就了解了,然後就可以找出相對的方法,方式.
女人最好能知道一些吸引男人的訣竅....啊,這是一門大學問...
中國女性與洋妞也不同,所以洋人的著作,需要適當的修正才好用...
Do you think it is because we are not attractive to husband? You changed the subject, husband leaves for so-called career because we are not attractive, so anyway, we are just blamed.
引"...without any body at present? Funny? "
===
這表示還有其他問題存在.
抱歉,我要戰時休兵.十個小時後再談.
1. I understand somebody doing it, ok, I am not balming anybody doing it. But husband requires wife to do it herself. This is just point: too selflish.
2. The problem is here: our right. freedom as wife is not guranted.
3. How to 合 even without any body at present? Funny?
4. we are very good, 兩人有緣,相處很舒服,"性"趣自然而來., problem ,"性"趣 coming, solved by herself? Is this sacrficed because husband is away?
男女有共同性, 男人之間也有共同性,女人也有共同性;但是每人有每人的個性!
你與他/她相處就了解了,然後就可以找出相對的方法,方式.
女人最好能知道一些吸引男人的訣竅....啊,這是一門大學問...
中國女性與洋妞也不同,所以洋人的著作,需要適當的修正才好用...
How to 合 even without any body at present? Funny?
兩人有緣,相處很舒服,"性"趣自然而來.
若是夫妻處處不合,就沒趣了.
就是這麽簡單.
The problem is: it is not "若是夫妻處處不合,就沒趣了". Just husband is not present at all. Our marrage is quite normal while husband is present.
per,"...Why he marry a woman?"
===
兩人有緣,相處很舒服,"性"趣自然而來.
若是夫妻處處不合,就沒趣了.
就是這麽簡單.
引:"...my freedom, you cannot require me to be 和尚,神父,修女,尼姑...沒有性生活,照樣活,像那位聖女德勒薩."
===
Youer freedom is honored!
I also honor these 和尚,神父,修女,尼姑s.
The problem is here: our right. freedom as wife is not guranted
"我不強求別人的愛好,順性而為,相配而合.
世界上的趣事很多,不要太專著一件事上.OK?!
我是什麽都敢講,很多事都看過,進過八間大學,修不同的科係...所以...多言了.
我也有:傳道,授業,解惑的使命.所以很喜歡與人交流."
I understand somebody doing it, ok, I am not balming anybody doing it. But husband requires wife to do it herself. This is just point: too selflish
===
Youer freedom is honored!
I also honor these 和尚,神父,修女,尼姑s.
When somebody, especially husband requires wife to be living like 修女,尼姑? Do you think it is funny? Why he marry a woman?
引,"...solve her sexy life by herself..."
===
我不強求別人的愛好,順性而為,相配而合.
世界上的趣事很多,不要太專著一件事上.OK?!
我是什麽都敢講,很多事都看過,進過八間大學,修不同的科係...所以...多言了.
我也有:傳道,授業,解惑的使命.所以很喜歡與人交流.
We are not think sex all day. We are natual human being. I do not want to be 和尚,神父,修女,尼姑...沒有性生活,照樣活,像那位聖女德勒薩. This is my freedom, you cannot require me to be 和尚,神父,修女,尼姑...沒有性生活,照樣活,像那位聖女德勒薩.
I am comparing my husband with any body, but it must be woman's nightmare to have a man like you as husband.
I mean my husband at least does know his duty as husband.
I just think you are not normal, so special. So it is not in the scope of our discussion. And I would not anwser your any question.
培養妳的內在品質非常重要,不要整天想性的問題.
和尚,神父,修女,尼姑...沒有性生活,照樣活,像那位聖女德勒薩,不是全世界都敬愛的人物嗎?她是一年多前去世的.
So you require your wife solve her sexy life by herself? And she is satisfied with it?
per,"....At least my husband did not say this way, I think I really want to divorce ..."
===
Good, just suit yourself. If you can find someone matches with you so well, then you're really lucky.
Do not compare. We Chinese say,"人比人,氣死人!"
It is really new for me to know: independent woman means that woman should solve sexy life herself without husband.
And I am not curious your sexy life at all, but just this question bothered women like us, nobody dares saying out. And I never know independent woman meaning to solve sexy life herself.
At least my husband did not say this way, I think I really want to divorce if my husband said this.
The problem is that I do not want to do it myslef. I think my husband has the duty to do this with me. Otherwise, I really cannot image why we need husband. Why we need marrage?
首先:女人一定要有獨立的能力!...
I think that everyone of us here(woman) is independ from husband, but one thing cannot be done without husband, you know what.
我想你們之間還有不合的問題存在.這可能是最關鍵的問題.
善加處理為盼.
per, "...No sexy life in 3 months is ok for you?..."
===
I'm a quite an unique person. Actually, everyone is different. One love-making in three months is OK with me.
Three times per day is also OK with me. If no sex partner, I'll do it to myself if I feel there is a need.
Is that satisfy your curiosity?
I did not ask where, but when? Once a year like panda?
No sexy life in 3 months is ok for you? Do you feel happy withuot sexy life in 3 months?
once in 3 months is enough?
引,"真理掌握在少數人手裏。"
===
100% 同意!
實在說,我是提供出不少觀念,都是很有份量的.妳若能認識到,必然獲益.我不必在此要人家服我,人都有學習過程!
per"...性權利。請回答我的問題？性也不重要嗎..."
===
當然重要,性關係是夫妻間的重要成分.
但是這裏的題目和在那裏做愛關係不大,可以在內蒙的草原上,也可以在佛羅麗達的海灘上,或在北京雀巢的人見不到的角落裏,都有不同的樂趣.
現在這裏談的是回不回國的問題.
等到他們家決定之後,他們應該知道在那裏做愛.
[大概這裏都是成年人]
我知道你會回回答，真理掌握在少數人手裏。那你自己欣賞你的真理吧，我們不喜歡。
你看有一人同意你的觀點嗎？救你聰明？我早就說過，你不應該出現在這。
所以妻子保護自己的性權利。請回答我的問題？性也不重要嗎？
現在丈夫不是為了生計回國，如果是，我們絕無半點怨言。如果不是，就應該考慮妻子的性權利。而且美國70年代人家分居是暫時的，短期的。不會幾十年。
per,"...我看你才真沒學到什麽東西"
敬謝不敏!
引"...眼界狹窄, 安逸的生活也是很多人的夢想"
===
把安逸的生活當成理想的人,就失去了老天爺派你來到世界的使命了!中國的不振作和這種安逸思維有關...在弱肉強食的環境裏,大概日本人先就不容你話下去!你看看印地安人都被滅種了!
老子的思想不是弱者的哲學!
我們思想不同,格調差別太大,你又會誣賴別人,
所以我把你列為拒絕談話戶!請走吧!
你沒有回答我的問題！真希望你能從這個討論中學到東西。我看你才真沒學到什麽東西。
引"...當老婆要實現夢想的時候, 就說你的夢想不是夢想, 而是禍國殃民的根源..."
===
你在胡言亂語,改我的話!不可以!罪大惡極!
我的原文是:"...當然,若是丈夫沒有夢想,而妻子有,那麽丈夫就應該幫助妻子去實現她的夢想."
一字不差!
2) 我是極力維護女權的人;
首先:女人一定要有獨立的能力!...
引,"...丈夫要求妻子犧牲自己的性權利（3個月才見一麵）是不人道的。 這才是長期分居的最大的犧牲。既然小孩在那生長對不錯，丈夫不應該要求妻子留在美國給他做保障。太自私， 不人道。"
===
1) 197X幾年,我在美國中部,和老鄰居談家常,那時的美國人,絕大部分都是誠實,善良,誠信的;他們憶及往事,是有一些人不願離開自己的家鄉,到遠處工作,幾個月回家一次,而那寫老太太們,沒有一個抱怨的!那時他們都實行體罰教育,處罰小孩也是很嚴的...那是美國的黃金時代,可惜你們大多數沒看到,自從尼克森的水門事件後就糟糕了,又來了個強生越戰,克靈頓的鹿紋四季事件...
2) 每人機遇不同,性格有異,Simply_leaf 已經得到足夠的知識了.
3) 再說三遍: 清官難斷家務事!
清官難斷家務事!
清官難斷家務事!
4) 希望各位在對話中,學到些東西.人一定要不停的學習,提高自己的素質.我是得到了更多的見聞.謝謝嘍,
Old dog learn new tricks.
你仔細讀一下Wiserman的回貼和跟貼, 你就比較容易理解一些中國男人的思維方式.
當需要妻兒為老公犧牲的時候呢, 就和你說一家人不要計較付出. 當需要老公為妻兒犧牲的時候呢,就不和你說一家人不要計較付出了, 改成老婆要獨立, 孩子要適應.
當老公要實現夢想的時候, 就說老婆要支持. 當老婆要實現夢想的時候, 就說你的夢想不是夢想, 而是禍國殃民的根源.
看見訣竅沒有? 根本不是觀點不同的問題, 而是怎樣對自己有利就怎樣說. 所以我勸你不用爭吵, 他們是揣著明白裝糊塗. 你能做的隻是想辦法盡量保護自己和孩子的利益.
所以妻子保護自己的性權利。請回答我的問題？性也不重要嗎？
引:"...孩子更重要..."
====
我懷疑這個說法有三十年了!我的反問是:"你自己的功能在那裏?"
從蘇格拉底,阿力士多得...康德,到沙特,羅素,沒有一個西洋的明智人物,會說這種話!
做父母的中國人啊,你們在想什麽???為了孩子...將來他們長大了,會聽你的嗎?會有成就嗎?會...?????????????
未來不測,把握當今!別人不靠,要靠自己!
BYE!
我也說過，老公回國是可以理解的。“該不該回國”不要強迫她老公回美國，那樣老公也是不幸福的。
但“該不該回國”的彷徨是正常的。我們首先要理解她，讓她心裏好受點。
我的主要觀點是：她老公不應該要求她留在美國。丈夫們最差也應該說：妻子願意在美國堅持，自己想法多來美國團聚。妻子如不願意在美國堅持，想法安排孩子會中國上學，老婆工作。真不應該要求妻子呆在國外給他做保障。太自私， 不人道。
正如偶然路過的人說的：
保重好身體, 照顧好孩子, 發展好事業, 真的想回國就回, 不想回呢, 就在美國過. 少爭吵, 兩個人在一起一天, 就盡量善待對方, 也減少對孩子的影響. 當然如果碰到更合適的人, 就重新選擇, 沒有必要為了這樣的老公耽誤自己的幸福.
我還加一條：讓老公自己決定留在中國或回美國。不要強迫他。如同我們不想別人強迫你一樣。
引,"...我實際上是一個很AGGRESSIVE 的人..."
===
好像你是個沒有 guts 的人,雖然你有你的想法,記住:"船到橋頭自然直";一些美國(白人)朋友,他們小時候跟著父母全世界住,每地從一年到三年,直到高中才回美,有的就在僑居地讀了當地的大學,現在與這些在美國拿到博士,碩士的中國留學生們,一起在美國大小公司做事,或創業,一點也不差,他們還做老板呢...還不就是這樣嗎?
在美國的中國人必須做的比別人好,加倍努力才行,機會不見得能拿到,當然像田長霖,駱家輝...的例子也有,那你就等吧...
若是在中國國內有好機會,最好不要放過,人生的好機會隻有3,4個而已...(餘下自己想)
還有什麽高論嗎？謝謝你的評論。你讓我們明白極端自私糊塗的中國男人們還很多呢。如果你是男人，我們為你的妻子感到不幸;如果你是女人，你願意那麽做是你的自由，但願你幸福。
per,"...安逸的生活也是很多人的夢想,追求這樣的生活同樣很有意..."
===
把安逸的生活當成理想的人,就失去了老天爺派你來到世界的使命了!中國的不振作和這種安逸思維有關...在弱肉強食的環境裏,大概日本人先就不容你話下去!你看看印地安人都被滅種了!
老子的思想不是弱者的哲學!
男人很吃女人“溫柔”那一套，跟他談時，原則上別讓步，但方式上要注意：要體貼，溫柔，有理有利有節。Good luck.
同意你說的,這不正是我們的無奈嗎
大膽講一句挨磚的話, 其實能平等不自私地對待家人的中國男士是有一些的, 但是要講比例的話, 比我知道的白人和墨西歌人少.
保重好身體, 照顧好孩子, 發展好事業, 真的想回國就回, 不想回呢, 就在美國過. 少爭吵, 兩個人在一起一天, 就盡量善待對方, 也減少對孩子的影響. 當然如果碰到更合適的人, 就重新選擇, 沒有必要為了這樣的老公耽誤自己的幸福.
可惜不是每個女人都有福氣找到為對方,為家庭著想的丈夫的.自私的人處處都在
做人不要那麽眼界狹窄, 安逸的生活也是很多人的夢想,追求這樣的生活同樣很有意義.
既然你認為夫妻雙方都應該幫助對方實現夢想, 那麽老公也應該考慮老婆希望在美國生活的夢想. 大家夢想不一樣怎麽辦, 那就看看孩子的想法了.
正如你說的. 出現這個矛盾的關鍵是有些人不能平等地對待家庭成員,以自我為中心, 甚至認為別人要嫁雞隨雞,這麽任性和自私的想法怎麽能要求其他家庭成員的支持呢?
既然是一家人, 就要顧及別人, 隻要真的有能力, 哪裏不能有一番事業呢? 但是為了一己之私, 傷了孩子和妻子的心, 不是一個有責任感的做法.
引:"...非生活所迫的情況下, 把孩子仍給老婆, 自己跑去追求夢想, 這不叫推托對妻兒的責任這叫什麽?..."
===
古有明訓,"清官難判家務事."
他們到底如何,你我都不清楚;一麵之辭在心情不好時說出,有考證的必要...可能很多人也認為做妻子的,應該幫助丈夫去追求夢想,"嫁雞隨雞,嫁狗隨狗";
當然,若是丈夫沒有夢想,而妻子有,那麽丈夫就應該幫助妻子去實現她的夢想.
追求夢想比過安逸的生活有意義.
“該不該回國”的跟帖表現出了她為人的坦然和光明磊落。我就放心了。
說實話，今天象是回到了學校，大家那麽又有理論又有實例，讓我覺得受益匪淺。我們大家都希望“該不該”能順利過了這道坎兒，找回自己的幸福。
生活有很多無奈,沒有標準答案
對於四十歲左右的的女人來說,誰也沒有天真到鼓勵LG回國,來考驗自己的婚姻,誰不知道現在國內的種種誘惑.誰不希望LG安分守己的留在北美,過一份安安靜靜的生活,但不是所有人都是那麽幸運的.不是所有女人都有機會嫁給把老婆孩子,家庭放在首位的丈夫的.不要埋怨那些回流老婆,太空人老婆當年不聽別人的勸告,最後自己吃苦頭.道理人人皆知,但具體到家裏這本經怎麽念,隻有當事人最清楚.婚姻在很大程度上是一種賭博,我外婆那輩人嫁給地主,資本家的時候是想不到會有後來的土改和公私合營,我母親那一輩人結婚的時候,也想不到會有反右,文革.我們結婚的時候也不會想到出了國,還有海歸一說,更想不到十年,二十年後中國的環境會變成這樣.要知道當時誰有生活問題,誰就等於給自己的前途畫句號.那些”棄婦”們也有過令人羨慕的婚姻.但社會在變,男人的心也會變, 這些都是自己無法控製的,但自己的生活,自己還是可以掌握的,隻有自己自立,自信,才能以不變應萬變,有可能的話,經濟上獨立是最重要的,如果自己暫時無法掙錢,那也要在離婚的時候為自己爭取最大利益.精神上要有自己的社交圈,最好是那種跑到哪裏都能找到”組織”的social group.與其整天為自己的命運歎息,還不如讓自己活的精彩
在並非生活所迫的情況下, 把孩子仍給老婆, 自己跑去追求夢想, 這不叫推托對妻兒的責任這叫什麽?對家庭的責任不是給點生活費就行了.
這不是女權主義, 這是一個人對於家庭起碼的責任和付出. 如果當老婆也這麽做, 把孩子仍給老公, 自己跑去追求夢想, 我也會譴責的.
這都什麽人呀, 不說自己沒本事讓家人過的舒心,居然還好意思怪家人拖累自己事業.
我不明白的是既然人的適應能力非常強, 為什麽做丈夫的不能在美國適應妻子孩子想要的生活, 而要妻子孩子都去適應他? 既然是一家人, 那麽當然應該尊重這家人裏大多數人的意見.
我不明白的是現在明明是做丈夫的因為一己隻私, 有可能會傷害自己的孩子和妻子, 你卻在對做妻子的諸多要求? 孩子是有眼睛的, 孩子是有腦子的,做丈夫的隻要做到一個父親和丈夫的責任, 孩子自有判斷.
留不留在美國不是最重要的問題, 最重要的問題是當一個男人靠著妻子孩子辛苦支撐下, 有了一點成績時, 居然為了追求自己的夢想, 犧牲家人想過的生活, 真的是很自私和忘恩負義.
做太太的要想的事是, 對一個比較自私的丈夫應該怎樣最大限度的保護自己和孩子的利益, 和要不要持續婚姻的問題.
1) 我想,在這方麵,妳快成專家了...
2) 人生要有比較高的理想和情操,千萬不能把留在美國,當做妳的人生目的!
3) 在妳現在掙紮之中,請特別注意:不要在心理上,傷害/偏見妳的孩子們.推論下去就是:不要把妳對妳丈夫的不滿,傳到孩子們的心中.
4) 人的適應性很強,很強,很強...若是不能適應,那是妳自己告訴自己不去適應的!
5) 我想妳已經決定如何做了,妳的資料也收集的差不多了.
不願多言,好自為之!
per,"Wiserman: You are really too wise. You should not be in this forum..."
Thanks for your comments. I am liable to every word I wrote! Any other question?
我感到非常榮幸能使人覺得恐怖.
你我沒有交集,沒有好談的!
我是"良藥苦口",大病下重藥,看到 simply_leaf 的"實情"敘述,才如此回答的.
妳可能是較自私的,驕養長大的,絕對不成熟.
與妳到此為止.無緣.好吧.
The best marriage should be for both parties to make sacrifice for family without comparing who makes more sacrifice, if you compare, it feels more like a business. But that is a very hard standard, most of people can't do that, the next step would be treat everybody equal like business partners, do your share of responsibility if you require a similar contribution from the other side, discounted by different life attitude and aspirations. Discounting is important, because husbands and wives have different interests..."
===================
...this is a very good observation and advice for every married couple.
per:"...Some of ladies here are not treating husbands as a equal member of a family in their subconscious. They are taking it for granted that husbands must be ready to make sacrifice for the family anytime. If you think that way, then you need to be prepared to be ready to sacrifice yourself for the family at any time.
The best marriage should be for both parties to make sacrifice for family without comparing who makes more sacrifice, if you compare, it feels more like a business. But that is a very hard standard, most of people can't do that, the next step would be treat everybody equal like business partners, do your share of responsibility if you require a similar contribution from the other side, discounted by different life attitude and aspirations. Discounting is important, because husbands and wives have different interests..."
Indeed, this is a very good observation and advice for every married couple.
For wife to stay in US as backup plan, this maybe a tough job, but it is a backup for the family, not just for husband. Also it is not forever, just for one year. If the husband in concern does not take advantage of good "sex" service available in China, it is tough for him too.
Some of ladies here are not treating husbands as a equal member of a family in their subconscious. They are taking it for granted that husbands must be ready to make sacrifice for the family anytime. If you think that way, then you need to be prepared to be ready to sacrifice yourself for the family at any time.
The best marriage should be for both parties to make sacrifice for family without comparing who makes more sacrifice, if you compare, it feels more like a business. But that is a very hard standard, most of people can't do that, the next step would be treat everybody equal like business partners, do your share of responsibility if you require a similar contribution from the other side, discounted by different life attitude and aspirations. Discounting is important, because husbands and wives have different interests, something for wives are natural, but could be a sacrifice for husbands, it is true the other way around.
Finally, luck plays an important role in life and marriage too, do not force it too much one way or the other. Always think in a positive way. If it is really too much a burden to take care of two kids, you can send one kid to China, or both of them to China. Not a big deal, huh?
下麵有些“女權宣言”，有丈夫們“不爭氣”的因素，也有期望落差的因素，即女人對生活期望通常高於男人。這對男人是一種鞭策，但也要理解這個不怎麽樣的社會隻讓極少數人過得順心，極大部分人是“不如意事常八九”。自我心理要調整，事情似乎沒有那麽糟，很多人比事主更糟。離婚再婚用相當大的代價提供一個轉折的機會，至於轉好還是轉壞應該是都有可能。而且好壞也不是windcat說的那樣的截然兩分。
我一般隻潛水，一共隻灌過3此水。
QQH就是文學城裏的悄悄話，你沒發過？你可太可耐了。
你是個性情中人。。。
謝謝你，太對了。小葉和我們就是group2.我為了孩子仍然堅持。但我會提出離婚的，等我孩子獨立了。
丈夫們最差也應該說：妻子願意在美國堅持，自己想法多來美國團聚。妻子如不願意在美國堅持，想法安排孩子上學，老婆工作。真不應該要求妻子呆在國外給他做保障。太自私， 不人道。
1. 立即回國，做決定難，隻是短痛。小孩們總能適用。學好中文也不錯。
2. 保持現狀，是長痛，那無數的夜晚孤獨的煎熬是對女人的折磨。我們戲稱活寡婦。所以我說丈夫們是太自私。太忙總是可以找到辦法，比如花錢請人幫忙。但孤獨誰能解？而且起碼14年你的孩子才能獨立。14年後你能回中國嗎？如不能， 就是一輩子。你婆婆也支持你老公的做法嗎？如支持，那隻能說他媽有毛病，太自私。過去的分居本身就是不人道的， 完全不能成為今天分居的理由。丈夫讓你留在美國，剝奪了你的性權利， 是極其不人道的。他們父親們連自己的兒子，老婆都不能保障，那個事業是什麽事業？有什麽意義？
當然，丈夫是這樣的想法，真沒必要為了他做什麽決定，想想那樣對自己最好，就那樣吧。
Group 1: they believe the wife is the one to love, to care for, and to protect.
They are willing to sacrifice their own interest for the wife and kids.
Group 2: they believe the wife is the one to be used, to be depend on, and to be backup.
Group 1's wife is the lucky one.
Group 2's wife is the unlucky one. You should either admit your fate, and learn to sacrifice yourself for your family; otherwise, you should have courage to give up this marriage and looking for a Group 1 husband.
Two of my closed friends have the same situation like you, they feel very pain, because they want to be taking care and to be loved, but their husbands just want to use them as backup and babysitter. One already divorced and remaining single; another still suffering but slowly begin to admit her role in the family.
首先,作為一個女人,首先考慮自己.雖然現在的工作如雞肋,但回國後能不能找到比這個好的呢.
其次,作為一個母親,孩子的心願不能漠視,回國後孩子能不能適應呢?
站在旁觀者的立場,我對這個丈夫感到挺失望的,所以給一句忠告:先考慮自己和孩子,夫妻關係放到第三位.
該不該回國遇到問題， 壓力之下到網上求助。 我能理解她的心情。大家能給她一點鼓勵就鼓勵， 給點支持就支持， 有點實在的建議和思路最好。 這個叫幫人“排憂解難”。 這裏的回帖雖然意見並不統一， 基本上都是走的這個路子。 而wiserman的回帖基本就是打棒子和扣帽子。可能他覺得發一通尖刻反駁， 把人的問題打發回去了就解決問題了。 這種做派很似從前某些國內領導對待農民問題：你鬧個什麽鬧？國家這麽困難你不替國家著想， 怎麽這麽自私？其實誰都知道， 國家困難可能是有的， 但是農民活不下去了更是事實。你想把擔子都壓到農民頭上， 讓他們自覺地閉嘴完事， 遲早逼農民起來造反。
“該不該回國”現在就是壓力之大， 搞得有造反的心了。其實大部分的女性， 隻要老公能表現得把家掛在心裏， 哪怕隻在嘴巴上多說點話，讓老婆心裏有點底， 老婆也都認帳，再怎麽辛苦也跟著。 一般情況下，一個老婆隻有對這個老公感到徹底絕望才會想到離婚。自然而然， 多半的人就會勸這個老婆多想點老公的好， 對老公建立信心， 另一方麵勸老婆增強自立以免這個老公真的令人絕望。至於老婆具體選擇怎麽去做， 是老婆自己的事。別的人都替代不了。不管什麽選擇， 如果這個老婆最後覺得好， 我們替她感到欣慰， 如果這個老婆最後覺得不好， 我們替她扼腕興歎。總之現在是這個老婆覺得痛苦， 而不是老公。
但是這個Wiserman呢， 上來就對這個老婆大打棒子。 先從她是“國內博士”打起。 我不清楚wiserman說“你這個博士白讀了”， 是特指國內博士呢， 還是泛指一切博士。 姑且說是指國內博士， 那麽Wiserman就給“國內博士”釘上了理想化的光環――既然是個“國內博士”， 就得精通人情世故， 就得讀一些社會科學,人性,心理學...的書。
很有可能， wiserman自己是沒有讀過“國內博士”的， 所以才對“國內博士”有如此的高調想象。如果他讀過， 就讓人不得不懷疑他的學位很大部分是靠鑽營得來的， 至少跟精通人情事故有關。 但更有可能， 他是沒有讀過海外博士的， 否則不會不知道在這兒拿個博士學位跟你是不是精通人情事故， 要不要讀 社會科學,人性,心理學...的書可以完全沒有關係。 當然， 就這樣， 他也敢叫自己 “Wiserman”。 ：）
他之所以拿“國內博士”開刀， 大概是想說你一旦精通人情世故了， 生活的壓力和擔憂就不成其為壓力和擔憂了， 這個老婆的抱怨就應該沒有了。但事實上， 我們看到這個自認懂得人情世故的wiserman對 一個訴苦求助的帖子都容忍不了，就不難想象他在生活中遇到什麽事後的反應， 以及他這辦法能有什麽實際可操作性。
果然， 他的1到9，一條條quote原文然後唱反調， 要說的就是：你看的是鏡子這麵， 我看的是鏡子那麵，我看的那一麵比你這一麵更重要！我無法看到他如何精通人情世故遊刃有餘地解決問題， 但我看到他的大棒子（“成事不足,敗事有餘”，“你的先生可能很後悔,呀！遇到這樣的老婆”）以及跟原貼不符的指責（e.g., 3）。 這種一邊兒倒的評議就跟針尖對麥芒的夫妻吵架沒有實質不同，除掉指責對方並沒有什麽建設性意義， 不能讓抱怨的問題消於無形。
他指責完了接下來要求： “你要心胸開闊,多為人著想”。這句話就是說： 你目前這樣的抱怨是心胸狹隘， 自私的表現。wiserman在沒有切實理解“該不該回國”的苦處， 沒有分析她老公的問題， 隻是要求她打包自己的痛苦自己扛， 不應煩擾違逆丈夫。這就跟壓製農民問題的領導們沒什麽兩樣了。
他最後說離婚也可以， 但是竟然陡然引申到， “中國教育是失敗的,人文教育太欠缺了!” 這樣的上綱上線也太可怕了， 甚至超出了壓製農民的領導們了。 “該不該回國”如果真離婚了就代表中國（對女性？）教育的失敗的和人文教育的欠缺嗎？ 我實在覺得wiserman的言辭才代表了這樣的問題。
有一些人， 缺乏對他人痛苦的基本尊重和關懷，自私， 冷酷。 不僅如此， 他們還要站盡道德的製高點來壓製他人為己所用，且自以為是， 好為人師。這真就是讓人感到非常的恐怖了。
自己想怎麽活就怎麽活，想那麽多幹什麽！孩子在哪兒都會開心的，隻要父母和睦，生活有保障就行。
若愛你的丈夫到了可以犧牲自己的份兒，就回國；不願意的話，就留在美國，獨立帶孩子，也別那麽多的抱怨。怨婦，沒勁兒。自己都覺得沒勁，是吧？
I am really ashamed for many chinese man, they went back to China, like being there, but do not want to take wife and children to there. How conflicting idea, let wife without sexy life in 2-3 months for his career, stupid. What this career is for? Only just he has good title, foolish.
But my point is: your husband is too selflish because of this: "他透露出孩子還是在美國好，他2-3個月回來一次。暑假我和孩子回國，這樣我們全年在一起的時間也有5個月。還說我們回去的話，他要分心，不能更全心投入到他的事業中。". If he as a man, the core of the family life like living whereever he likes, but should arrange wife and the children to be with him.
Family should be together, either husband or wife get a more satisfied job in other place, should consider spouse and children, and arrnge properly.
Divorcing is not so hurry, except you get a new man friend, and you like him very much, you should be more active to find a new man friend if you really like USA life. Otherwise, just keepingthe situation, let your current husband flying until he gets boring, maybe he will find a new wife in China, be preparing for this.
該不該回國: do not be so worry. Here I am living in one of European country, there are several examples like you. Your husband is not resposible man, he is too selfish. Be strong and take care of your 2 children, they will be independent after 10 years (actually 5 years, it will be much easier for you). And if you may be independent and get the permanent job, and you like China very much, just go back to China with your children, they will adpate to China quite easily. If yourself cannot get the permanent job, do not like China, just stay in USA. Do not think about where is better for children, only think where is better for you. Children either in China or USA have pro and cos.
男的沒說想離婚，也不是有了外遇。
女的若離了婚，還能嫁誰啊，日子會更好嗎，對孩子會更好嗎？
生活中的理解，妥協，隱忍和堅持非常重要，不要輕言放棄。
如果男人的夢想是回國創業，應該給他一次機會，不然他這輩子都覺得白活了。女方一人帶兩小孩，雖然辛苦，還是可以堅持的，一是這家人本來在美國就分居兩地，女方一人帶孩子， 二是美國單親家庭不少，不是照樣過。 有很多華人家庭就是這樣的，男的國內創業，老婆孩子在美國，一家人兩邊跑，苦中有樂，過得也挺好的，犯不著全家都回去。
引:"感情這東西，合則聚，不合則散吧"
=== 大部分人的感情不是如此幹脆的事.
我建議使用"各得其所,大家心安"的原則處理它.
你這個博士是白讀了!一點人情世故都不懂.請多讀一些社會科學,人性,心理學...的書,對你大有幫助.
1) 引"...兒女很喜歡美國。"
=== 因為她生於此地,小孩就是小孩.
2) 引"...畢竟他們要在美國讀大學"
=== 為何你如此肯定???各種變化如此多...
3) 引"...我先生極力回國，在我的再三阻攔下仍然回去了...我現在都非...恨他的不負責任"
=== 你先生可能也再三勸你回去,為什麽你不依?他該恨妳的不負責任!
4) 引"...我沒法和你過了。他就沒回去，機票作廢"
=== 成事不足,敗事有餘.
5) 引"...他...回去之後他就不想回來了...又...商量，我還是堅決反對， 包括我的家人"
=== 你的反對理由充分又必要嗎?你的家人最好不要牽涉在內!
6) 引"...我想即使我們全家都回去後，遇到不開心的事情，我都要怪到他的頭上。"
=== 遇到不開心的事情在那裏都有,遇到時,要全家合力承擔責任!
7) 引"...我心裏最擔心的是...他還是不想回美國的話..."
=== 為什麽一定要在美國生活?
8) 引"...我實在是怕耽誤孩子的身心和前程。"
=== 孩子在美國就保證有錦繡前程?就一定身心健康?
9) 引"...我真是很矛盾。唉！遇到這樣的老公。。。"
=== 你的先生可能很後悔,呀！遇到這樣的老婆。。。
---------------------------------------------------------
10) 你要心胸開闊,多為人著想,從不同的角度看事情,不要隻認定一個觀點.
11) 若和老公真的合不來,分就分吧!但是,記住"好來好往",不可成冤家.也要知道,離婚的後果,艱苦一段時間,以後是好是壞,未知數.
但是,怎麽辦都能活下去. 不過:
為了住在美國,把丈夫甩掉,可能隻有現在的中國人會如此做;印度人在這方麵,比中國人清醒多了!一位引度熟人曾對我說,"我們引度幾乎沒有美國非法移民."...住在美國和回印度對他們說都差不多,各有得失.
中國教育是失敗的,人文教育太欠缺了!
要麽委曲求全，要麽一刀兩斷
說太多誰對誰錯，到頭來也不過如此
這個老公呀, 品質真夠差.
如果真的想無所顧及的做好事業, 那就不要結婚. 撈了婚姻的好處, 該他負責了, 就不樂意了, 居然可以厚顏無恥到指責孩子拖累自己的事業, 人家孩子還沒抱怨當爹的沒本事, 五年都要靠當媽一個人的工資養孩子.
說到骨氣, 這麽男士就更有問題了. 沒錢沒事業的時候, 說啥是啥, 剛剛熬出點頭, 就衝著老婆耍個性, 要自尊了.典型的小人嘴臉.
夫妻感情，能改善的盡量改善，實在不行了，就考慮開始自己的新生活。
(1) Husband is not a responsible family-oriented man;
(2) Raising two kids and have a full-time job are too much works;
(3) She don't enjoy her current job;
(4) She and her husband is a middle-income, not rich enough to hire full-time nanny in US.
(5) She already at mid-age, not young and attractive anymore
I guess based on above conditions , the best solve is to go back together to China. In this way:
(1) Keep family safe, this is the best gifts for two kids than divorce;
(2) Can hire full-time nanny take-care of house-keeping jobs;
(3) She can have a freedom to chose a new excting career or become a relaxing house-wife;
(4) She will become more attractive because social support and cheaper labor;
(5) She will have more time with her mom and dad,...
(6) Her husband will love her again if she learn not to complain:)
看來你覺得她應該回國，給她的婚姻家庭一個新機會？
She has been talking a lot about US, GC, citizenship...Kids like US. No doubt because they grow up here. But remember, her husband and her are actually the parents of the kids, not the "US".
你說得很對。就是這麽回事。有時人都愛把責任推給別人，我覺得“該不該”是個好女人，好母親，但作為妻子呢？
We have to make choices all the time in our life. But we have to be clear what is the most important to us. You always blame your husband ignore the family, kids... but what about you? Making choices between family and funiture? Boy's swimming classes over his father?...