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王小波與羅素 [口舌逞強]

(2005-01-24 14:29:21) 下一個
to #Paleink: 昨天確實寫了好多話,卻全廢了。你的BLOG裏居然不能用COPY/PASTE命令,氣死我也。:)) 你的朋友很為你鳴不平,灑家真是不知道為什麽,:)) ,他也許不懂啥叫相逢一笑吧,以為灑家在找你的刺呢,:)) ,有些人灑家看來是不需要如此那般繁俗的,心意了然才是為朋為友的一點基礎,醉清風的境界應該是很高的,我看得出,所以才會三言兩語。 OK,言歸正傳,努力回憶昨天的思維。 李銀河很愛王小波體現在兩點上:1)小波生前,李小姐一肩挑了生活的重擔,讓王小波專心寫作,小波的生活自理能力很差,也就導致了李銀河不在身邊時就突然去世了。2) 李銀河喜歡小波的文字和幽默和智慧,她極盡全力的傳播小波文字,並推崇小波的文字到了一個很高的境界,她拿小波挪娛李敖,我沒意見,但她說小波羅素最意氣相投,我看是“隻緣身在此山中” ,或“李婆賣瓜了” 。有學者評論說:王後來在雜文裏不停得引用羅素,昆德拉,卡爾維諾的話,已經開始顯出他的語言的貧乏了。 我從不否認靠智慧和幽默寫作的人,總很更難的,他已經很好了,可以作為自由精神的人被流傳,而不是他的小說。 王小波先生的精神家園其實是很孤獨的,其妻李銀河也這樣說的,卻不是很反省的 (他的文字沒有方向性,也就是說他總還是自由的);他的文字是很有趣的,卻少有思想的(他的文字缺乏深刻性);他有些人文,卻不是憐憫的(讀者不知道他在關懷什麽);他是個體浪漫的,卻隻是內心深處的;他的小說很生動,隨筆和雜文卻很一般的;小波的文字是死後流傳的,他的死為他的文字而生;他的文字是獨特的,卻不是文學美化的; 我喜歡欣賞王小波先生是因為他的浪漫背後的深掩的孤獨以及在這個生存時代的無奈。 羅大師是很牛牛極的,哲學,數學,文學,他都是精通的,有人拿他跟愛因斯坦相提並論的:));是拿過NOBEL的,是博雜的,是反戰的和平的卻曾經主張用NUKE滅了SOVIET-UNION的,是激情燃燒的東跑西顛的,是主張自由試婚且有過多次婚姻的,是到過中國的卻同樣很失望的離開中國的:“中國人沒有心腸、懶惰、不誠實。他們將賑災事務全部推給歐洲人,而且他們的政府極端腐敗。絕大多數學生愚蠢而又膽小。我並不真地認為我在此間所做的一切有什麽價值。杜威夫婦在此呆了一年,他們已完全失望。”(羅素致柯莉,一九二○年十二月三日,原件存羅索檔案館);是變通的現實主義的,是懷疑,熱血,適應主義的推行者;推崇羅素的杜威的學生胡適之也是不鳥羅大師的中國之行的;他自由自在的,跑來跑去,出盡人間風頭的:)) ;對人類苦難感到無法忍受的憐憫之情,活得很老的;越來越無聊的,很不孤獨的; 所以,我景仰卻難以喜歡欣賞的。:)) 哲學是科學的一部分,還是高於科學我是不很清楚的。把邏輯分析引入哲學是不是合理的,我更是一無所知的,哲學是什麽我更不是我的智商能明白的。 交叉學科出文章我是知道的,變來變去,適者總能生存的。這是國人最能接受的,是符合我國國情的,現在最值得提倡的。:)) 王小波先生是理人玩文人放達思想的,寫的是文人的童話的,不是生活的。羅素是通俗的,卻不是有趣的。 醉清風小姑娘是可愛得,純善的,青春無比的,自信的,激情的,博學的,幽默的,心靈點犀的,和羅素是有一拚的,是不需要護花的。:)) 不過,也許的事我是不說的,義務是將來時的。:)) 灑家是從不欺負女孩子的! Q
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醉清風. 回複 悄悄話 兩風之角智

To Quantum(風量子)& Asunnysong:

By ≠paleink
駐筆回想思徘徊, 筆墨猶擲言流散。

中國大陸一日遊剛回來,看到你和asunnysong的探討與爭論。
本有許多話要說,可盤旋於腦海的問題很多,想把心上這一團錯綜複雜的思緒梳理清晰很難。
現在我竭力讓我的思路明白曉暢。

孤獨,變通,偏見

一切人事上的關係,不同的人都會有不同的看法,真正能跟自己心靈契合,相視而笑的人能有幾個?所以我們感慨說, [人生得一知己足矣]。我們的世界是瞬息萬變,與時俱進。變化快得多得,自己轉身看我的過去,我的境遇,心裏想想,[奇妙]兩字久久在腦際回想。友誼,姻緣,它們都是流動,突如其來,突然而去,我們不能扣留住[永久],所以有人說[天長地久],[與子偕老],他們說永久,隻不過是厚道的在應景罷了。我們隻抱有這種信仰,隻能是自欺。

不過能使人快樂,幸福的,我們都應當珍惜。真正美好的友誼和婚姻,都是自由的,是無所懼怕的,不因為沒有天長地久的理想妨礙我們樂觀,積極的態度,我們也仍
[意]在持久。

認識到[好]花不能長開,[好]景不能長在也許是一種可貴的認識或刺激,明白了美麗的脆弱,更嚐得珍惜的滋味。

人生就像朵玫瑰花,美麗有[刺],雖有刺,而仍美麗。

所以在這變幻莫測的世界裏,也難有永恒的信仰和主義。把思想單一化,靜態化隻會讓自己處處碰壁。

人思想的發展和修正似乎和人生的主線索密不可分。羅素一生,追求真理,追求正義。回顧他的人生路,可以說,他的一生的確信守了自己的諾言。

‘The serious part of my life ever since boyhood has been devoted to two different objects which for a long time remained separate and have only in recent years united into a single whole. I wanted, on the one hand, to find out whether anything could be known; and, on the other hand, to do whatever might be possible toward creating a happier world. Up to the age of thirty-eight I gave most of my energies to the first of these tasks. I was troubled by skepticism and unwillingly forced to the conclusion that most of what passes for knowledge is open to reasonable doubt. I wanted certainty in the kind of way in which be found in mathematics than elsewhere. But I discovered that many accept, were full of fallacies, and that, if certainty were indeed discoverable in mathematics, it would be in a new kind of mathematics, with more solid foundations than those that had hitherto been thought secure. But as the work proceeded, I was continually reminded of the elephant upon which the mathematical world could rest, I found the elephant tottering, and proceeded to construct a tortoise to keep the elephant from falling. But the tortoise was no more secure than the elephant, and after some twenty years of very arduous toil, I came to the conclusion that there was nothing more that I could do in the way of making mathematical knowledge [indubitable]. Then came the First World War, and my thoughts became concentrated on human misery and folly. Neither misery nor folly seems to me any part of the inevitable lot of man. And I am convinced that intelligence, patience, and eloquence can, sooner or later, lead the human race out of its self-imposed tortures provided it does not exterminate itself meanwhile.

On the basis of this belief, I have had always a certain degree of optimism, although, as I have grown older, the optimism has grown more sober and the happy issue more distant. But I remain completely incapable of agreeing with those who accept fatalistically the view that man is born to trouble. The causes of unhappiness in the past and in the present are not difficult to ascertain. There have been poverty, pestilence, and famine, which were due to man’s inadequate mastery of nature. There have been wars, oppressions and tortures which have been due to men’s hostility to their fellow men. And there have been morbid miseries fostered by gloomy creeds, which have led men into profound inner discords that made all outward prosperity of no avail. All these are unnecessary. In regards to all of them, means are known by which they can be overcome. In the modern world, if communities are unhappy, it is often because they have ignorances, habits, beliefs, and passions, which are dearer to them than happiness or even life. I find many men in our dangerous age who seem to be in love with misery and death, and who grow angry when hopes are suggested to them. They think hope is irrational and that, in sitting down to lazy despair,
They are merely facing facts.
I cannot agree with these men. To preserve hope in our world makes calls upon our intelligence and our energy. In those who despair it is frequently the energy that is lacking…..

(Russell Autobiography, P725-726)

他一生是以追求真理與至善為己任的。


文如其人――文由心生,文字也許掩蓋思想

了解一個人最好的辦法,就是研讀他/她所有的著作,此外邊緣的旁門小道隻是給我們偷懶的思想找一個好的籍口休息休息。

我沒多過多少王小波的作品,所以我要談他和羅素,隻會貽笑大方。
對於羅素的著作我也隻是一知半解,他的一生,共有上百部著作和兩千多篇文章,就是我不讀專業課,兩眼隻盯著他,一時半會也是讀不完的。
但是關注的焦點應在他的為學為人。思想休憩,瑣碎偏重,隻增添了和眾的鳴躁。

Quantum說,羅素是到過中國的卻同樣很失望的離開中國的,並寫下惡毒言語的。
您提到的這段話,我在羅素自傳中國行一章中,並未看到。

我願附上另一段他寫給Ottoline Morrel( R ussell Autobiography, p370):
28th October, 1920

Since landing in China we have had a most curious and interesting time, spent, so far, entirely among Chinese students and journalists, who are more or less Europeanized. I have delivered innumerable lectures – On Einstein, education and social questions. The eagerness for knowledge on the part of students is quite extraordinary. When one begins to speak, their eyes have the look of starving men beginning a feast. Everywhere they treat me with a most embarrassing respect.

。。。。

Apart from the influence of Europeans, China makes the impression of What Europe would have become if the eighteenth century had gone on till now without industrialism or the French Revolution. People seem to be rational hedonists, knowing very well how to obtain happiness, exquisite through intense cultivation of their artistic sensibilities, differing from Europeans through the fact that they prefer enjoyment to power. People laugh a great deal in all classes, even the lowest.
。。。。。

The Governor of Hu-Nan is the most virtuous of all the Governors of Chinese provinces, and entertained us last night at a magnificent banquet. Professor and Mrs Dewey were present; it was the first time I had met them. The Governor cannot talk any European language, so, though I sat next to him, I could only exchange compliments through an interpreter. But I got a good impression of him; he is certainly very anxious to promote education, which seems the most crying need of China. Without it, it is hard to see how better government can be introduced. It must be said that bad government seems somewhat less disastrous in China than it would be in a European nation, but this is perhaps a superficial impression which time may correct.

最後一段的意思是:
湖南省省長是中國各省省長中最得高望重的一個,昨晚兒設宴招待了我們。杜威教授攜夫人也出席了此次宴會,這是我第一次與他見麵。無奈省長不會講任何歐洲語言,雖坐在他身邊,卻隻能通過翻譯相互致意。但是,我對他留有一個好印象,他很熱切地希望促進教育,似乎是中國當前最迫切的需要。我們因此明白,沒有教育的發展,很難悟到如何建立一個更完善的政府。換句話說,一個壞的政府在中國造成的災難不像在一個歐洲國家那麽嚴重,不過這也許是我的一個膚淺的印象,
須待時間的修正。

所以歲月是成熟,智慧的代價。

孤獨的童年

Quantum:羅素對人類苦難感到無法忍受的憐憫之情,活得很老的;
越來越無聊的,很不孤獨的;

先來看一下羅素的童年吧

羅素幼年父母雙亡。他的母親和姐姐在羅素兩歲時,因患白喉而死亡。他的母親生前是一個女權運動的支持者,是一位生性正直,嚴肅;才思敏捷,富於機智,生氣勃勃,有創造精神和無所畏懼的女性。

接著,在他母親離開人間18個月後,他的父親也離他而去。父母雙亡,對於一個三歲的孩子,精神上的創傷無疑是巨大的。在他自傳中:‘My father and mother were dead, and I used to wonder what sort of people they had been. In solitude I used to wander about the garden, alternately collecting birds’ eggs and meditating on the flight of time.”

我的父母都以過世,我常會想, 如果他們在世,會是什麽樣。在孤寂時,我常常一個人在花園裏徘徊,不是撿鳥蛋就是沉思於飛馳的時光。

幸喜上蒼有眼,羅素智識淵海,為人類社會的進步,為當代哲學和科學的發展,作出了卓越貢獻,一生為追求真理,為創造一個更幸福的世界做著至善的努力。直到彌離之際,羅素都是自己的理想的忠實實踐者。

1961年,羅素已87歲。因組織靜坐示威,反對核軍備,被判七天監禁。

最難能的是,1967年,已95歲高齡的羅素,仍精力充沛地投身於保衛世界和平的事業。密切關注羅素和平基金會資助的國際戰犯審判法廳的工作。

他的床頭,掛著[Leibniz,G.W.& Frege, G]兩位德國哲學家的照片,他們對真理的追求,孜孜不倦的求知欲與羅素如影相隨。

他父母的英靈也地下安眠。

關於羅素的試婚的觀點,打了一大嗬欠,我們可否來日在論?:)

Quantum你我雖以接近而立之年,但少年的矜氣並未全消,讓你我全盤接收對方觀點都實為勉強。

我不喜應景,也不擅阿諛。

誠然,熱鬧,浮燥與清醒,深思無緣。如倘把羅素的著作讀上幾本(原著),對於我所讚你定能有所醒轉,也隻有在那些中心裏來考察羅素,也許更能平實地權衡他的為學為人的份量,你我的隔閡自然就會打通。Quantum的學識不淺,眼光不鈍,胸襟不窄。與你過招,生思補智。

與一個達觀的人共勉

西風敬上

2005-01-27


















Quantum619 回複 悄悄話 另一側麵而已,性是人生活的一個重要部分,在這點上,讀過“生命不可承受之輕”的都知道,受昆德拉得影響很深,但思想性卻差了些,不過,他總喜歡寫主人公那東西很碩壯,顯得很好玩。
Quantum619 回複 悄悄話 自由精神更是一種性格或品質,卻不一定是有思想的表現。

王小波先生也從來也沒真正抨擊過什麽,寫的好點的應該是紅拂夜奔,他在自己的天空裏自由飛翔,然後給了我們啟示:我們應該怎麽樣?

所以,這是咱們自己的悟性好。:))

嵇康很有思想嗎?

他的文章是因為敘述太多,故事性不強,情節一般,文字沒有很雕琢,幾乎沒有震撼力,加上自由的精神太稀有,所以才沒人讀吧。

他們的差異太多了,絕不僅僅是國家差異的問題。羅素的思想是建立在憫人之上,而小波還隻停留在超越自身追求自由精神的獨立上,所以他孤獨的很。

人老跟自個兒玩,會很壓抑的。:)),所以,老毛跟人鬥,多有趣啊。

小波頂多是追尋了昆得拉羅素的思想,特別是在描寫性上的坦誠生動,他離超越還遠的很。

不過,就這樣,他也已經很優秀了。隻是當香港出版商跟他說:“黃金時代”不好,叫“王二風流史”吧,好賣。他也默認了,要出版嘛。哈哈哈。

我很喜歡小波的文字,但我好象也清楚的感覺他的思想範圍。誠如你所說,這是他在中國的局限性,但昆得拉呢。

中國知識向來不乏自由精神,隻是麵對強拳時,自由精神變成了阿Q精神罷了。:))

不寫了,反正我們都欣賞小波的,隻是程度不樣。羅素嘛,我可沒說我喜歡他,但他的成就是靠天賦的,顯然是大的多,也因為活得長吧。:))
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